Recommend
13 
 Thumb up
 Hide
33 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Android: Netrunner» Forums » Strategy

Subject: My BGG OCTGN Tournament 2nd Place Decks rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Orange Devil
msg tools
Having wrapped up the tournament yesterday, I reckon now is a good time to post my decklists and some thoughts on them. I got through all the way to the finals, dropping only 1 corp half of 1 game in the swiss rounds, which did unfortunately cost me the game as well, and then losing again as corp in the finals, costing me that game. The finals were recorded and cast by Db0, and you can see the recordings here:

http://boardgamegeek.com/video/23183/android-netrunner/octgn...

http://boardgamegeek.com/video/23192/android-netrunner/octgn...

So, without further ado, let's start with my runner deck:

Identity:
Kate "Mac" McCaffrey: Digital Tinker (Core)

Total Cards: (45)

Event: (24)
Infiltration (Core) x3
Sure Gamble (Core) x3
Diesel (Core) x3
Modded (Core) x3
The Maker's Eye (Core) x3
Tinkering (Core) x3
Easy Mark (Core) x2
Special Order (Core) x2
Stimhack (Core) x2

Hardware: (8)
Rabbit Hole (Core) x3
Cyberfeeder (Core) x3
The Personal Touch (Core) x2

Program: (8)
Battering Ram (Core) x3
Gordian Blade (Core) x3
Ninja (Core) x2

Resource: (5)
Aesop's Pawnshop (Core) x2
Armitage Codebusting (Core) x3

Influence Values Totals -
Anarch: 5
Criminal: 10
Shaper: 56

So right away perhaps a controversial statement: I believe that card for card this deck is the strongest possible Shapers deck that can be constructed with the cards released in the Core Set. Until quite recently, I did not see a single Shapers deck that I thought even came close.

I noticed when I started playing, with the starters, that once Shapers are set up, it becomes virtually impossible for the corp to ever leave an agenda on the table. Combined with Maker's Eye for scary R&D runs and Aesop's and Kate's ability to make money, Shapers lategame looked very scary indeed. Even when switching to constructed decks this held true. So I set out to build a deck that would get fully set up as fast as possible. I also expected most games not to last all that long, and in the really lategame I can take 4 credits and still be scary. This is why I see Magnum Opus as a trap. It simply costs too much and takes too long to pay for itself, when compared to Armitage, which gets even more pronounced with Aesops. And I want Aesop's anyway, because due to Kate's ability, ideally I'd like to play 1 hardware or program every turn, so I want loads of hardware, since it can't be trashed by the corp, it lets me use Kate's ability, and with Aesop's I can turn all of it into credits. If I don't have Magnum Opus, I also don't need The Toolbox, which again speeds up my deck by cutting out a high cost card. Sure, I can use Modded on it, but I already have 3 great targets for Modded in the form of my icebreakers anyway.

Once I cut Magnum Opus and The Toolbox from this deck, it's performance increased remarkably, becoming much harder to win by rushing against. I ended up even able to drop a third copy of Special Order and virtually never lose tempo. Even if one breaker does elude me for a while, Tinkering is a good backup plan, which can still end up saving me credits later on. Do keep in mind though, that Ninja is usually the breaker I want to Special Order for, since I have only 2 copies of it, and sentries are the scariest ice.

Modded and Diesel are key cards early on, and I will play almost every hand with one of those cards in it. I don't really need the Stimhacks and Personal Touches until later, and Rabbit Hole makes for difficult decisions in the opening hand as well. Do I draw and risk drawing a second, or do I play and go broke? It depends on the rest of the hand, but usually I end up playing it, as it combos well with Aesop's and it's deck thinning effect does help, although it's hard to quantify exactly how much. In general this deck wants to draw a lot. Draw to get more money generating cards, draw to get set up fast and then finally, draw to get the good lategame cards like Stimhack, Infiltration and Maker's Eye. When in doubt, draw.

I said before I saw no Shapers decks that came close until recently. That deck was Jopejope's, which does feature Magnum Opus and The Toolbox prominently, and which impressed me because I do think that in general, Magnum Opus is a bad card and a trap for players new to Shapers. Jopejope however, made it work by using some unorthodox breaker choices, and I hope he will post his deck here as well. I still prefer my deck over his, both because of my play style and due to me drawing so much that I'm all but guaranteed to hit more Infiltration's and, to a lesser extent, Maker's Eyes, which allow me to be safer from ambushes and possibly put more pressure on R&D. That said, his deck is pretty damn strong as well.

So then the last question. I'm saying this is the strongest possible Shaper deck, but how does it compare to the other runners? Well, I think Anarchs are just not quite there right now, they've got some interesting options, but they're pretty combo-dependent and generally just lack the money to be as dangerous as Shapers or Criminals right now. Criminals, on the other hand, well, what's not to like? They come right out of the gate putting massive pressure, they've got loads of very flexible Event cards, they generate money, they can set up almost as strongly as Shapers can and most importantly, due to pressuring so well early game, they can easily control the pace of the game for a long time. When it comes down to it, Criminals are the best runner choice right now. So why did I choose to play this Shapers deck? Three reasons, firstly and most importantly, it was my first Runner deck that was done, and so I had the most experience with it, secondly my Criminal deck just wasn't quite finished yet when the tourney started, and thirdly I like playing this deck and wanted to see how it'd do, rather than be boring and play criminals like I thought everyone else would do.

Alright then, that's my runner deck, let's take a look at my corp deck now.

Identity:
Haas-Bioroid: Engineering the Future (Core)

Total Cards: (49)

Agenda: (9)
Priority Requisition (Core) x3
Private Security Force (Core) x3
Accelerated Beta Test (Core) x3

Asset: (10)
PAD Campaign (Core) x3
Adonis Campaign (Core) x3
Aggressive Secretary (Core) x2
Zaibatsu Loyalty (Core) x2

ICE: (24)
Enigma (Core) x3
Heimdall 1.0 (Core) x3
Ichi 1.0 (Core) x3
Rototurret (Core) x3
Chum (Core) x3
Archer (Core) x2
Tollbooth (Core) x2
Wall of Thorns (Core) x2
Wall of Static (Core) x3

Operation: (6)
Hedge Fund (Core) x3
Archived Memories (Core) x3

Upgrade: (0)

Total Agenda Points: 21

Influence Values Totals -
Haas-Bioroid: 31
Jinteki: 7
NBN: 4
The Weyland Consortium: 4

Ok so first of all, this deck simply isn't very good. At the time when the tournament started, I had a couple of corp decks kicking around, and this one had been the most reliable and least gimmicky. The idea is simple, load up a load of ice to make Accelerated Beta Test strong, and use Archived Memories to get agendas back from archives. This, combined with HB's money generation capabilities, should result in one big remote the runner can't get in, as I advance my way to victory. In case of problems, Aggressive Secretary, Zaibatsu Loyalty and Assets pretending to be ABT should help me out.

What I'd change were I to run a similar deck right now would be to run three Tollbooths and change PAD into Melange. I had a couple of reasons for taking PAD over Melange: 1. Melange isn't as good with the HB ID as with other corps, 2. I already want to use my big server to stash Adonis Campaigns, which take time, so do I really also have time to use Melange and advance agendas? 3. PAD is easier to protect early on, when this deck is generally weakest already anyway and 4. I mistakenly believed that due to the prevalance of Bank Job's, the meta had already shifted away from PAD, which in turn would mean people would cut Bank Job's, possibly even entirely. In practice, this hadn't happened (yet?), and perhaps it wasn't all that likely to happen anyway due to the limited cardpool. Either way, it ment my deck was pretty weak to Criminals, and indeed both its losses were against Criminals. I think changing all or some of the Chums into Ice Walls is entirely viable as well.

Even with that, however, it was in around the first week of the tournament that I finally started seeing and building Fast Advance decks that reliably worked, and these were really strong. Had I figured this out earlier, I would've ran Biotic Labour for sure. I had run it in the past, but it just sat there dead in my hand pretty much all the time, which is why I cut it in the first place. I think both Hollis' and Malefact's HB decks are better than mine, and hope they'll post their lists as well.

That said, even with all that, my deck surprised me by how often it misfired. No less than 3 times did I get straight up bad starting hands with this deck in the tournament, including in the finals. That's significantly worse than it did in testing. I managed to salvage 2 of those situations by throwing down a combination of 3 Assets and Agendas on the first turn. This seems to throw off most players, which let me get the win. However I very much doubted whether that would've helped me in the finals even before I saw Malefact's hand. Having seen it now, I know there's no way I would've won with that opening either. Criminals are just too strong in such a situation, having so many strong ways to pounce on early weakness. Were I to enter a tournament right now, I'd play a very different deck from this.
17 
 Thumb up
1.32
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Noah D

Arlington
Virginia
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Thanks for sharing your decks, and giving such a great in-depth analysis of them!

I also played Shaper in the tournament and likewise decided that Armitage + Aesop was superior to committing the MU and credits needed for the Opus.

I also ran the full set of Cyberfeeders and loved them in Shaper. I included a single copy of Sneakdoor which I actually really liked as the Corp has no reason normally to Ice archives vs Shaper, and playing Sneakdoor and then spending the turn raiding HQ in the late game yielded me agendas almost without fail.


But I did make a couple serious mistakes due to lack of playtesting opportunity (zero testing, ) One was to include Wyldside, which I was in the honeymoon stage with at the time, but which over the course of the tournament I become increasingly disenchanted with. It works in my Anarch deck (though I would likely play Diesel there instead if I could get it for 0 influence) but really grated in my Shaper deck. I should have included Special Orders instead as you did.

My biggest mistake with my Runner was that for some incomprehensible reason I thought it was a good idea to pull all the Infiltration out of the deck. This mistake really left me wrong-footed in a lot of situations, with no way to check the contents of a Server except running on it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
El-ad David Amir
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
argus88 wrote:
My biggest mistake with my Runner was that for some incomprehensible reason I thought it was a good idea to pull all the Infiltration out of the deck. This mistake really left me wrong-footed in a lot of situations, with no way to check the contents of a Server except running on it.

Removing Infiltration is much more common than I would have expected. I have no idea why people do that...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Noah D

Arlington
Virginia
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
IirionClaus wrote:

Removing Infiltration is much more common than I would have expected. I have no idea why people do that...

I think for me it was because I found myself playing the first one I drew for money quite frequently, which at a click and a card for 2 credits made me question its value. What I wasn't consdering were the mid to late game when it can save you enourmous ammounts of money to know what is in their server without having to run it, let-alone helping to avoid ambushes.

The real problem was that I'd played less than 10 games in total when the Tournament began. There were a lot of things I learned over the course of the tournament. Overall I was pretty pleased with how my decks worked out given I'd only played the Corp deck once and the runner deck zero times beforehand. The only matches I didn't win were with fritzer and fry, and vs fry I managed to make it a draw.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Orange Devil
msg tools
Sneakdoor Beta is a legit good card for Shapers, however it presents 4 problems. The first is perhaps the easiest: what to cut. You can probably find 2 or 3 OOF cards to cut to make room that will change the accent of the deck, but not its fundamental focus, ie. it's doable. However, aside from the one copy of Sneakdoor Beta, what do you add back in? You can probably add another Personal Touch, which isn't great but it's not outright bad either, but beyond that? There's just no real good cards to take up that space. The third problem is that now you've got 1 copy of Sneakdoor and no way to tutor for it. It´s excellent when it shows up kinda in the midgame so you can play it, hit up the corp´s HQ 3 times, force some ice to be rezzed, and then overwrite it with something else. If it shows up really early, it´s not horrible, you can do roughly the same, just with a lower chance of actually scoring, but you still have a decent chance of coming out ahead. But what if it shows up really late when you don´t have any MU anymore? Overwrite a Battering Ram, then overwrite the Sneakdoor with another Battering Ram, I guess? Pretty wonky and basically means Sneakdoor should win you the game or at least buy a lot of time. And with 1 copy, there's a pretty decent chance of just never seeing it as well.

So yeah, it's not a bad thought, and it's probably quite worthwhile if you're running The Toolbox anyway, but in my deck, I see more downsides than upsides.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Noah D

Arlington
Virginia
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Yeah, I added mem chips to the deck as well which made finding space for sneakdoor less difficult, and could later be sold off with Aesop (after selling the sneakdoor) to generate some funds. But I'm not disagreeing with you at all. All of that is slowing down the deck, and may ultimately not be worth it, though like I said Sneakdoor scored me an average of almost 2 points per game across my 5 matches (one game netting 5 points in one turn for the win) + whatever cost to the corp when they subsequently Iced Archives.

I like your list a lot though, and it's very much the direction I would have taken my deck given the experience I got from the tournament with probably the single difference being that I would have tried to retain the sneakdoor.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rus
United States
Mountain View
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Orange Devil wrote:
I said before I saw no Shapers decks that came close until recently. That deck was Jopejope's, which does feature Magnum Opus and The Toolbox prominently, and which impressed me because I do think that in general, Magnum Opus is a bad card and a trap for players new to Shapers. Jopejope however, made it work by using some unorthodox breaker choices, and I hope he will post his deck here as well.


Hmm, interesting deck!

I notice that you conspicuously make no reference to the following deck. (On purpose? )

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/880792/kate-brute-force-...

Jopejope tells me my deck is very similar to his, though I don't believe I've seen it. I hope he posts it as well!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Billy Martin
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
rbelikov wrote:
Orange Devil wrote:
I said before I saw no Shapers decks that came close until recently. That deck was Jopejope's, which does feature Magnum Opus and The Toolbox prominently, and which impressed me because I do think that in general, Magnum Opus is a bad card and a trap for players new to Shapers. Jopejope however, made it work by using some unorthodox breaker choices, and I hope he will post his deck here as well.


Hmm, interesting deck!

I notice that you conspicuously make no reference to the following deck. (On purpose? )

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/880792/kate-brute-force-...

Jopejope tells me my deck is very similar to his, though I don't believe I've seen it. I hope he posts it as well!


While I do have a deck that is similar to your deck, I don't think that is the deck that OD is referring to. I will post that decklist and the philosophy behind it. It is a very strong deck and I have not lost very many games with it.

What's impressive about OD's deck and it's no-magnum-opus strategy is that he won the finals even though that game lasted so long. Despite such a long game he still had enough credits to make all the runs he needed to make against a deck that was specifically playing the heaviest ICE available. Without Magnum Opus.

In my game as corp against Orange Devil, I got to do some early Melange Mining, and I was then able to score 2 agendas before he got setup. After that, I was impressed by how often he was able to run despite not seeming to be able to do so. I had three agendas left, and all I needed was to score one more of them, but I couldn't do it because he just barely had enough money to run every time. First time, tinkering and he scraped together enough bits. Second time, Stimhack. Third time, it was too late. and my ICE wasn't enough. I might have won that game though if I had made a few choices differently. It was a close game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Billy Martin
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
jopejope wrote:

While I do have a deck that is similar to your deck, I don't think that is the deck that OD is referring to. I will post that decklist and the philosophy behind it. It is a very strong deck and I have not lost very many games with it.


Actually I remember talking to you about this deck so it might be the same one after all. It is similar in some ways. I'll post it tomorrow.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Billy Martin
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
BTW, Orange Devil, recently I took your advice and I built a Shaper deck without Magnum Opus. Amazingly, the deck I put together is almost exactly identical to this deck you posted here. The only difference is that I have 3x Stimhack and 2x Cyberfeeder, and you did the reverse! So only one card difference in the whole deck!

I think you are on to something when you say that card for card this is the best Shaper deck. When you are playing to draw cards rather than gain bits it severely limits what you are allowed to include in your deck since every draw has to be card that nets you 2 or more bits. This deck is the inevitable result. The only other variation I can think of is to include Sacrificial Construct instead of Personal Touch. It works a little better with Pawnshop and can be very useful if you have to run blind. But Personal Touch is really nice on Ninja (or any breaker for that matter depending on what ICE you are facing) so it might yet be the better choice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Orange Devil
msg tools
Sacrificial Construct is certainly a good card and also works well with Aesop's. However right now, it basically does the same thing Tinkering does, that is, lets me run without being completely set up early game and still be safe. However, Tinkering goes beyond that and also lets me get in and lategame it still lets me save credits. When a way the corp can trash hardware gets printed, I imagine it might become a necessary card to include, but right now I haven't really missed it.

Also, while a Shaper rig all set up with Magnum Opus and taking dozens of credits is certainly very strong and can lock a game down, I think by having so many ways to gain credits that can be hidden (Easy Mark, Hedge Fund, Stimhack) or semi-hidden (unexpected use on Aesops), allows me to make big runs on turns where I started with very, very few credits. Having that information hidden is definitely another hard to quantify advantage. It's kind of similar to how most everyone has now figured out you generally don't want to play a breaker until you need it for a run, in order to attempt to surprise the corp with it. Same goes for your credits. Sometimes you want to play that Sure Gamble or Easy Mark so you can afford more stuff, but sometimes you want to keep it in your hand so you can run on things the corp doesn't know you can run on. I've had a time where I got Breaking News into a Closed Accounts and still managed to make a 21 credit run with a click to spare to dump a tag (Aesop's -> Easy Mark -> Sure Gamble -> Stimhack run with 2 cyberfeeders). This is a very strong option to have.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Billy Martin
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Here is my Shaper deck Orange Devil is referring to.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin
United States
Creve Coeur
MO
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Orange Devil wrote:
So right away perhaps a controversial statement: I believe that card for card this deck is the strongest possible Shapers deck that can be constructed with the cards released in the Core Set.

So, I recently had a friend over for A:NR. Had a Criminal and Anarch deck built, and after reading discussions about "Rigs of death" and such I decided to throw your take on things - inspired in part by your provocative statements - to have a full suite of runners. While I can't say if it's the best possible Shaper deck, I will volunteer that it's easily the most fun runner deck I've ever played, by a mile. I love thinning out with Rabbit Holes, drawing the entire deck, pawning all over the place, etc. Maybe Shaper is my style? Anyway, TYVM for posting it!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
sozin sky
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Any thoughts on how you might alter your deck given the two new data packs? Snowball looks pretty nice!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Orange Devil
msg tools
sozin wrote:
Any thoughts on how you might alter your deck given the two new data packs? Snowball looks pretty nice!


I ran a version that changes Gordian into Zu.13, drops the Easy Marks and adds a single Spinal Modem and Magnum Opus instead. Between the Modem and the Zu.13's, you get enough memory for that Magnum Opus, and both the Modem and the Opus give you a stronger lategame in those games that just drag on forever.

Advantages:
more targets for Modded, so more likely to be able to use all of them
Zu.13 works well with Aesop's, basically becoming Easy Marks
more recurring credits and your credit generation stays good forever, meaning you're a bit better equipped against certain fast advance decks, for example

Disadvantages:
now you're vulnerable to stacked Tollbooths
you got 2 more dead draws early in the game, and if you get the Opus and even the Modem too early, it's best to just dump them
less card based credit generation due to Easy Mark being missing, which goes against the desire of the deck to draw early and often
slightly increased vulnerability to traces


It was interesting and fun to use new cards, but I wasn't thoroughly convinced by it. The new version isn't much different in overall strength, but I still think the original wins out. I haven't tried Snowball, but it doesn't seem very good.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Jensen
United States
League City
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for posting and I've really enjoyed the commentary. Netrunner is so new but it seems we've already seen some 'champions' arise and I appreciate your input. jopejope, hollis and orange devil

This deck relies on drawing. Do you believe its viable for a deck to go no draw? Magnus, Aesop, Breaker Suite. Once I've got those cards out, I never have to draw again and simply use all my clicks to gain 2credits.

I've had success with this a lot. And a typical game looks like this;
Early game: Corps scores agendas; Runner builds rig
Mid game: Corps is built, Corps scores agendas.
Late game: Corps is scared to score becuase nothing is safe; Runner waits it out.

I've never lost to Agenda scores with this deck only nets/traps and SE. My level of competition may not be high enough =) NOTE: I've decked out a game when the score was 6 v 6 and the Corps didn't want to place an agenda down. Something about having 31+credits as the Runner seemed to help. Stimhack in hand and since I previously played one; Corps was scared.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Jackman
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
FileAccess wrote:
It's interesting how removing Magnum frees up a significant amount of space in your deck, as you no longer need Toolbox and/or Akamatsu Mem Chips for the extra program space.


My beef with Magnum Opus exactly. You either Run toolbox, which means you are investing up to 14 credits up front (9 for the console + 5 for magnum), or you are running mem chips(while they get the job done, its not exactly a great card), or you slash in Desperado or Spinal Modem, costing you influence.

All for a card that takes 9 clicks to break even.

I'll be more than happy to run it with Chaos Theory, though. For now, I like my shaper decks to splash in threats like Stimhack or Forged Activation, rather than spending influence on consoles. It makes the decks significantly more aggressive in the early game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Jensen
United States
League City
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mac gives a one credit discount, and I hope people are playing Magnum with Modded. In which case you get this back in the sixth click (1.5 turns) - and that includes the draw!

In a deck where you are in need of draws, maybe Mangum is not wise. But if you can contsruct a deck where you don't require any more draws - then Magnum never competes for these precious clicks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Tu
South Africa
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Saan wrote:
FileAccess wrote:
It's interesting how removing Magnum frees up a significant amount of space in your deck, as you no longer need Toolbox and/or Akamatsu Mem Chips for the extra program space.


My beef with Magnum Opus exactly. You either Run toolbox, which means you are investing up to 14 credits up front (9 for the console + 5 for magnum), or you are running mem chips(while they get the job done, its not exactly a great card), or you slash in Desperado or Spinal Modem, costing you influence.

All for a card that takes 9 clicks to break even.

I'll be more than happy to run it with Chaos Theory, though. For now, I like my shaper decks to splash in threats like Stimhack or Forged Activation, rather than spending influence on consoles. It makes the decks significantly more aggressive in the early game.


It hardly matters when magnum pays for itself when the goal is to bury the corp in money and not to compete for those early points. Name one other card that can compete magnum with this strategy. There are nine. Different strategies demand different cards.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Tu
South Africa
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
FileAccess wrote:
Saan wrote:
FileAccess wrote:
It's interesting how removing Magnum frees up a significant amount of space in your deck, as you no longer need Toolbox and/or Akamatsu Mem Chips for the extra program space.


My beef with Magnum Opus exactly. You either Run toolbox, which means you are investing up to 14 credits up front (9 for the console + 5 for magnum), or you are running mem chips(while they get the job done, its not exactly a great card), or you slash in Desperado or Spinal Modem, costing you influence.


Note that I wrote that quite a while ago.

I overall agree that managing memory space is crucial, and I agree that going Magnum-less provides a lot of flexibility, but when WLA was released it was actually rather trivial to run Magnum Opus without a console or mem chips:

Magnum Opus (two MU)
Corroder (one MU)
Femme Fatale (one MU)
ZU.13 Key Master (zero MU with one Link and Kate)

Yes, you're still spending influence on your final rig in the form of Corroder instead of using Battering Ram, but you don't need to two mem chips or a Toolbox to get things up and running. You do need to hit a link, though, but the link is valuable to you for reasons other than memory space as well.


Unless you're going to be touching her excessively, you can't rely on femme fatale as your sentry breaker! And I see nothing wrong with tossing in a few Mem chips. They're great for the flexibility they afford a big rig.

Though chaos theory will be awesome with test run
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Hinkes
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
FileAccess wrote:
Yes, you're still spending influence on your final rig in the form of Corroder instead of using Battering Ram, but you don't need to two mem chips or a Toolbox to get things up and running.

And now you can Snowball for no influence, too.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Jensen
United States
League City
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here's another alternative:
Consider that Akamatsu Mem Chips are Easy Marks when paired with Aesops. IMO - Aesop is OP. No clicks to gain 3 credits; this is a must have in Shaper decks.

Literally once my rig was built; [magnum opus, breaker suite] I Opused every click. I usually have an aesops out to sacrfice all the miscelaneous programs I installed while drawing early for my full rig. Notice all the 1 cost installs. Three MasterKeys and Three Akamatsu Mem Chips are basically all once per turn Easy Marks.

I'm tweaking this still... but here's the gist.

Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Android: Netrunner Deck Builder

Identity:
Kate "Mac" McCaffrey: Digital Tinker (Core)


Total Cards: (45)

Event: (9)
Modded (Core) x3
The Maker's Eye (Core) x1
Diesel (Core) x3
Stimhack (Core) x2

Hardware: (15)
Akamatsu Mem Chip (Core) x3
Rabbit Hole (Core) x3
The Toolbox (Core) x1
Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead) x2
Cyberfeeder (Core) x3
Lemuria Codecracker (Core) x3

Program: (14)
Battering Ram (Core) x1
Gordian Blade (Core) x1
Magnum Opus (Core) x3
Pipeline (Core) x2
Snowball (Trace Amount) x2
ZU.13 Key Master (What Lies Ahead) x3
Ninja (Core) x1
Femme Fatale (Core) x1

Resource: (7)
Aesop's Pawnshop (Core) x2
Armitage Codebusting (Core) x3
Crash Space (Core) x2

Influence Values Totals -
Anarch: 5
Criminal: 10
Shaper: 49
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
El-ad David Amir
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
notyetsuperman wrote:
IMO - Aesop is OP. No clicks to gain 3 credits; this is a must have in Shaper decks.

Ahhh ... you need to sell something to gain the three Credits. Unless Data Dealer is "one click to gain nine credits; this is a must have in a criminal deck".
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin
United States
Creve Coeur
MO
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I run Ninja, Key, Snowball, Opus, and Chips. Once a Rabbit Hole is played, the Chips are totally unnecessary - but at a 0 install cost for Mac, they're +3 credit cards w/Pawnshop. I've never gotten the ambivalence toward Snowball. Corroder is the consensus best fracter in the game: 2 cost, 2 strength, 1 to pump, 1 to break. Snowball is 4 cost, 1 strength, 1 to pump, 1 to break (which also pumps). The play difference isn't huge to me, but the influence savings I find priceless.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Orange Devil
msg tools
notyetsuperman wrote:

This deck relies on drawing. Do you believe its viable for a deck to go no draw? Magnus, Aesop, Breaker Suite. Once I've got those cards out, I never have to draw again and simply use all my clicks to gain 2credits.


If you look at the Shaper's deck jopejope linked, it does just that. It's based on taking credits rather than drawing. It has its own strengths and weaknesses compared to this deck. Strengths include being able to afford Femme's and then being able to run into pretty much anything always without needing any tricks up their sleeves. Weaknesses include not being able to draw any tricks up their sleeves. So say, a deck that relies on taking credits will be unlikely to be able to use all 3 Infiltrations, and might only get 1 in a game. That's not a problem against some corps, but against others it can be a death sentence.

In general, if you're relying on events, you have to draw. If you instead want to get your hardware, programs and non-transient resources up and then sit on it, you want to make sure you don't need events once that is all up. So while certain events are still useful in that scenario, for example Modded and Diesel, because they help you set up faster, other events, such as Infiltration, Maker's Eye and Stimhack are not as useful if you are not going to be drawing much. For a deck that doesn't want to draw, Lemuria becomes attractive, for example, because it's a repeatable effect that doesn't require you to draw. Ofcourse, it does require a run on HQ, which will require credits. Fortunately, that's where your credit-taking deck is strong, but then you are giving up some of your strength to patch up a weakness, so it's a balancing game. Do note though, that if instead you draw for Infiltrations, you are also giving up your strength (efficient credit generation) to patch up a weakness. Additionally, you are not guaranteed to draw the Infiltration in time, whereas you can always use Lemuria once it's out. So these are the kinds of choices you have to make when you go one way or the other.

Whichever way you go, I think it's very important to try to streamline as much of your deck as possible to point in one direction. So for example, when you say you want a breaker suite, Magnum Opus and Aesop's, I have to ask you what the point of Aesop's is? Aesop's is great in my draw-based deck because I want to draw a lot and install something as often as possible (ideally every turn) to get the most out of Kate's ability. I can then target all that stuff I installed with Aesop's if the 3 credits would be better than whatever that stuff gives me. But if you're not drawing, you're not installing either, and then all you got is that breaker suite and Magnum Opus to Aesop's which don't seem like good options. Aesop's is also good for me because I'm using Armitage for money rather than Magnum, and Aesop's increases Armitage both in credits and in click efficiency, meaning I need to spend less clicks on credits and can spend more on drawing. Also note how Kate's ID supports the draw based deck more than it supports a credit taking deck. Sure, if you plan on installing Magnum Opus, 3 breakers, a console and Lemuria, Kate will net you 6 credits, which is certainly not bad, but if you look at my original deck, Kate will net me 9, and in the deck with Spinal Modem and Magnum Opus it will net me 11 and allow me to use the extra 2 Zu.13's as Easy Marks. So my deck is more in line with Kate's ability. Again, does that make my deck better? It depends on the corp, sometimes yes, sometimes no, but what it does tell us is that Kate is probably not the best ID to go with a credit-taking deck but does appear to work well with a draw-based deck.

FileAccess wrote:

The deck was actually rather effective with just Femme as a killer. Janus didn't see much play in our circles, and Femme only takes two more credits to break Archer than Ninja or Crypsis. Femme certainly can't handle Troubleshooters really well, but Tinkering comes in handy when that situation is a concern.


Just Femme means you die to Corporate Troubleshooter + Archer or even Rototurret if the corp has enough money. Furthermore, it's wrong to compare Femme to Ninja in this deck, the first Personal Touch must clearly go on Ninja, since the savings are so huge (Archer, Shadow, Draco). Sure, Shadow can be advanced out of range again, which is annoying, and Draco's can now be rezzed with 2 counters on them, but then I just got a great target for my second Personal Touch. It also used to be pretty hilarious to see them advance Shadow to strength 3, only to then Aesop's that second Personal Touch. Sadly, Trick of Light makes it all a bit more serious now.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.