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Subject: Molly is Mentally Impaired rss

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Ben Stanley
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So, I had taken a vacation from news and this forum for a couple of weeks. When I returned, I read about:

A full scale war at its earliest stages in Israel

A widening scandal rocking the Pentagon and involving generals and women with various ties to the military

New disturbing disclosures about dishonest propoganda over Benghazi

A labor market in shambles with far too many unemployed, underemployed, or working part time

Lots of businesses, including an American icon and snack bakery, shutting down, laying off tens of thousands, others cutting back employee hours to avoid costly new regulatory mandates, and still others adding significant healthcare surcharges to all their outgoing bills

A volatile stock market down a lot more days and a lot more value than up

Vile, offensive, hate filled posts throughout the Internet universe

Lots and lots of blame tossed at others

A European Union with several member countries returning to recession

America races toward a fiscal cliff

And more.

Just in the last two weeks.

And I concluded only one thing could explain it all: we re-elected that one guy who has been an abject failure and has had no idea what he is doing for the last four years despite having someone more qualified than we could have dared hoped running and willing to give his time to turn our country around and fix this mess?

What were we thinking? The answer is we were not: we continued to play identity politics and fiddle while the greatest country on earth burned. And we now pay the price.

Good, "talented" people like Molly pay the price. They did not learn from the last four years. Young people and minorities, by most measures the demographic groups that have suffered the most under the failed policies of the last four years, with exceptionally poor job prospects and incomes that have declined faster than fuel, food, and healthcare costs have skyrocketed, acted against their own interest and re-elected the very man who let them down so much the last four years? Did that really happen?

* * *

Well, let it never be said I offered only doom and gloom. Let me point out the silver lining for Molly and for America. There are some things to look forward to:

* I like buying board game apps for 99 cents, and when so many millions cannot find jobs at all, the downward pressure on pricing for certain non-necessities will continue to make dirt cheap apps a reality for all who can afford the hardware to play them on. Sure, that does not reward the time and talent invested in their production, and certainly could not provide a living wage, but its a nice consolation prize for an awful economy.

* Molly and others like her may find easier access to food stamps and student debt forgiveness until the system completely collapses when the parasites have drained every last drop from the host. Those will be nice perks if they don't comprehend that their individual share of unfunded liabilities and national debt is rapidly eclipsing more money than many make in a lifetime.

* We can find out just how long Bush can possibly be blamed for all the world's ills and used as a justification to double down on failure time and again. Eight years? Do I hear 12? How about 20?

So, those are nice things to think about. It's a shame that so many people we care about cannot work, and so many college degrees are leading to the highest educated generation of people incarcerated or living on disability payments ever seen in the history of the world, but I tend to think that's exactly what we can expect when we endlessly and falsely vilify and demonize the producers and job creators, dismiss actual results and qualifications, ignore long term consequences of every choice, incentivize frivolous litigation, and reward the most expensive, time consuming, and negative campaign in history.
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Blue Steel wrote:

And I concluded only one thing could explain it all: the media thrives off of sensationalism


FTFY
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Damian
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You have limited critical thinking skills.
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CHAPEL
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WTF? The election is over.
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Mac Mcleod
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The U.S. will be fine either way.

The "incompetent" Obama has mostly repaired the damage done by Bush and Greenspan and after a slow year but bearable year next year, things should turn very nice for the next three years.

All these excepting a genuine pandemic, world war, or major asteroid strike.

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Billy the Hut
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Yet again:
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Josh
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Ben, you posted your Application Essay for the Fox News correspondent job in the wrong forum. Make sure they didn't' get some board game review by mistake too.
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Ben Stanley
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MWChapel wrote:
WTF? The election is over.


I reserve the right over the next eight years, every time anything goes wrong* and I feel so inclined, to post "We could have had someone great at the helm who knew what he was doing." In fact, just assume that sentence is posted by me in every sad thread from here on out, and assume a vociferous objection in any thread where during the midst of such tragedies someone dares to suggest either "well, no one could have prevented this" or "no one could have done better."


* including but not limited to: declarations of war, undeclared conflicts, terrorist attacks, natural disasters with poor responses, layoffs, growing debts, really bad television seasons, drone strikes with collateral damage, corporate bankruptcies, economic collapse, epidemics, reductions in hours or wages, disappointing performances by professional athletes or sports teams, anarchy, domestic violence, hate crimes, reductions in welfare benefits, strikes, increasing unemployment, Internet regulation, declining household net worth, broken promises of any kind, stagnant opportunities, divisive politics, falling incomes, delayed legislative implementations, restrictions on free speech or other constitutional rights, altered health benefits that leave people vulnerable and without care, fraud and cronyism, waivers from onerus regulation granted to select entities but not others, and boardgame loses.
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Blue Steel wrote:
We could have had someone great at the helm who knew what he was doing.


But unfortunately no such person even ran for nomination. And on the Republican side no one who wasn't a joke compared to that description ran.
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Blue Steel wrote:
I reserve the right every time anything goes wrong to post "We could have had someone great at the helm who knew what he was doing." In fact, just assume that sentence is posted by me in every sad thread from here on out.


This is pretty much how I've been feeling since we failed to elect Adlai Stevenson in the 1950s.
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Blue Steel wrote:
I reserve the right over the next eight years, every time anything goes wrong* and I feel so inclined, to post "We could have had someone great at the helm who knew what he was doing."


your arguments would be a lot more convincing if you knew the difference between eight and four, I'm just saying
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bjlillo wrote:
He's talking about missing out on eight years of Romney/Ryan there sweet cheeks.


I'm sure in four years the GOP will nominate a sufficiently rich and white dude that he forgets all about Mutt Rooney or whatever that guy's name was.
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The Mad Hatter
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Will this be the beginning of a new RSP meme? "Molly is..." threads?

Molly is Gassy
Molly is a Nymphomaniac
Molly is a Mormon
Molly is Really a Guy
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Ben Stanley
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LeeDambis wrote:
Blue Steel wrote:
I reserve the right over the next eight years, every time anything goes wrong* and I feel so inclined, to post...blah blah blah

Yeah, you and the thousands upon thousands of Republicans who have been telling us that Obama sucks since right after he was elected the first time and before he'd even taken office.

You never heard that from me. Like most Republicans, I was cautiously optimistic that someone unqualified but sharing a really inspirational message about being a unifier and different sort of politician who believed in transparency might actually work out well (even if I wouldn't have voted for him). Most America gave him a huge, supported chance, with our faith and prayers and with big majorities in both houses of congress to show us what he could do. A lot of America gave him the benefit of the doubt and wanted to completely and fully support him regardless of his lack of leadership because of his broader message and diverse qualities (and many decided to give him TWO chances: truly the triumph of hope over experience).

But the reality is he has proven himself a failure. The tragedy is the better candidate did not get elected, and it's a fair point that Romney's first test was to get elected in the first place. I was impressed with the way, in an era of declining relevance, credibility, and viewership, the media still went all in and ran tireless interference for Obama yet again, but what truly shocked me, and I believe is the saddest commentary of all, is that for the first time the more negative, destructive, dishonest campaign won. Normally that does not happen at the presidential level: four years ago Obama was inspiring (even if his answers were wrong), but of all his evolutions, the most disappointing for me personally was his turn to bitter, false politics of envy to avoid his record of total failure and suppress voters with billions spent (including a lot of taxpayer resources rather than campaign contributions) hiding facts and spinning lies, with America's acceptance of that new low.
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bjlillo wrote:
The real threat to the United States is not Obama, but rather an electorate willing to vote for him.


Suck it.

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Blue Steel wrote:
... and reward the most expensive, time consuming, and negative campaign in history.


Such horseshit.

Every fucking campaign is the most negative campaign in history. America is always at its most divided. This season is always worse than the first two. Kids nowadays are always the worst in memory.

Everything is always the most whatever it has ever been.

Until we start starting wars because the wrong guy was elected, I'm going to say that we don't have the worst negative campaign in history.

Also:

Blue Steel wrote:
A full scale war at its earliest stages in Israel


Christ, really? I hate to break this to you, but there have been... uh... troubles in that area for a few years now.



Blue Steel wrote:
Vile, offensive, hate filled posts throughout the Internet universe


say

it

ain't

so
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Ilthuain wrote:
Blue Steel wrote:
... and reward the most expensive, time consuming, and negative campaign in history.


Such horseshit.

Every fucking campaign is the most negative campaign in history. America is always at its most divided. This season is always worse than the first two. Kids nowadays are always the worst in memory.

Everything is always the most whatever it has ever been.

Until we start starting wars because the wrong guy was elected, I'm going to say that we don't have the worst negative campaign in history.

Also:

Blue Steel wrote:
A full scale war at its earliest stages in Israel


Christ, really? I hate to break this to you, but there have been... uh... troubles in that area for a few years now.



Blue Steel wrote:
Vile, offensive, hate filled posts throughout the Internet universe


say

it

ain't

so


Worst. Post. Ever.
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Blue Steel wrote:

Young people and minorities, by most measures the demographic groups that have suffered the most under the failed policies of the last four years, with exceptionally poor job prospects and incomes that have declined faster than fuel, food, and healthcare costs have skyrocketed, acted against their own interest and re-elected the very man who let them down so much the last four years? Did that really happen?


so you expect people to only vote for someone who wont act against their own self interest? cause Obama would have probably had an even greater majority.. all the women, gays and minority groups for a start...
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Well, I'm afraid it'll have to wait. Whatever it was, I'm sure it was better than my plan to get out of this by pretending to be mad. I mean, who would have noticed another madman round here?
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Blue Steel wrote:
And I concluded only one thing could explain it all: we re-elected that one guy who has been an abject failure and has had no idea what he is doing for the last four years despite having someone more qualified than we could have dared hoped running and willing to give his time to turn our country around and fix this mess?


Sounds like the 2004 election.

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What were we thinking? The answer is we were not: we continued to play identity politics and fiddle while the greatest country on earth burned. And we now pay the price.


How are we the greatest? Do you mean ever or just right now?

Quote:
Good, "talented" people like Molly pay the price. They did not learn from the last four years. Young people and minorities, by most measures the demographic groups that have suffered the most under the failed policies of the last four years, with exceptionally poor job prospects and incomes that have declined faster than fuel, food, and healthcare costs have skyrocketed, acted against their own interest and re-elected the very man who let them down so much the last four years? Did that really happen?


These groups have been mostly let down by each president since Nixon was forced out. Truth is, many chose the lesser of two evils. After all, Romney was calling them "takers" and threatening to destroy what few government services remain for these groups. You might say Democratic policies are simply "buying" votes and you would be right to a degree. However, a government that refuses to help its less fortunate, and more importantly provide greater opportunity and reasonable security is, to quote Richard Nixon, "not worth the sweat off my balls."

Quote:
* Molly and others like her may find easier access to food stamps and student debt forgiveness until the system completely collapses when the parasites have drained every last drop from the host. Those will be nice perks if they don't comprehend that their individual share of unfunded liabilities and national debt is rapidly eclipsing more money than many make in a lifetime.


Can one include the corporations in the parasite category?

Wait, I saw your line about "producers and job creators." Are they more deserving of rights and government goodies simply because they are wealthy? This is not a question meant to bait or goad, but a direct attempt to see what you think and why Mr. Steel.

Quote:
* We can find out just how long Bush can possibly be blamed for all the world's ills and used as a justification to double down on failure time and again. Eight years? Do I hear 12? How about 20?


His disaster was so complete, that like James Buchanan, it will be about 30-40- years before it is mostly mitigated. Even then, the effects of Buchanan are felt each time the South votes like the Civil War is still ongoing.

Of course, even Reagan dropped the "blame Carter" schtick after his first term. Same goes with FDR in relation to Hoover. If anything, Obama failed to properly use a rhetorical tool that few presidents have ever possessed.
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Bush really was a pretty poor but effective president and he and greenspan basically created these bad times through poor enforcement of financial regulations and bubble building 1% interest rates.

Iraq busted the budget and I can't see any reason he did it other than because of some wierd father/son rivalry.

Bush oversaw a huge drop in our civil rights and implemented many procedures that would have been considered markers of a fascist police state only 12 to 20 years before his term.
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Blue Steel wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
WTF? The election is over.


I reserve the right over the next eight years, every time anything goes wrong* and I feel so inclined, to post "We could have had someone great at the helm who knew what he was doing." In fact, just assume that sentence is posted by me in every sad thread from here on out, and assume a vociferous objection in any thread where during the midst of such tragedies someone dares to suggest either "well, no one could have prevented this" or "no one could have done better."


* including but not limited to: declarations of war, undeclared conflicts, terrorist attacks, natural disasters with poor responses, layoffs, growing debts, really bad television seasons, drone strikes with collateral damage, corporate bankruptcies, economic collapse, epidemics, reductions in hours or wages, disappointing performances by professional athletes or sports teams, anarchy, domestic violence, hate crimes, reductions in welfare benefits, strikes, increasing unemployment, Internet regulation, declining household net worth, broken promises of any kind, stagnant opportunities, divisive politics, falling incomes, delayed legislative implementations, restrictions on free speech or other constitutional rights, altered health benefits that leave people vulnerable and without care, fraud and cronyism, waivers from onerus regulation granted to select entities but not others, and boardgame loses.


If we assume this, does that mean we don't actually have to put up with any more inane hogwash from you? We can just assume it and save you the effort and ourselves the boredom?
 
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Ilthuain wrote:
Blue Steel wrote:
... and reward the most expensive, time consuming, and negative campaign in history.


Such horseshit.

Every fucking campaign is the most negative campaign in history.


Indeed. I don't think there's anything that Obama did that measures up to LBJ's "daisy" commercial, or the "did you know John McCain has an illegitimate black baby" whispering campaign from the 2000 South Carolina primary.

Heck, look up the Coffin Handbills and see the smears against Andrew Jackson. "Did you know his mother was a prostitute?"
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bjlillo wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
Blue Steel wrote:
I reserve the right over the next eight years, every time anything goes wrong* and I feel so inclined, to post "We could have had someone great at the helm who knew what he was doing."


your arguments would be a lot more convincing if you knew the difference between eight and four, I'm just saying


He's talking about missing out on eight years of Romney/Ryan there sweet cheeks.


Hey sticky buns, that doesn't make any sense, even in the context of not being what it was that Blue Balls Steel said. When you sober up from the con, this stuff gets easier.
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Ben Stanley
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gittes wrote:
How are we the greatest? Do you mean ever or just right now?

Well, the greatest economy right now (despite the destruction of the last few years), and the country that was the shining beacon to the world of tolerance, productivity, inclusion, innovation, and various ideals. Greatest is probably subjective, and it might be tough to compare the US with various countries and empires from global history. I was thinking in terms of "right now" and my opinion when I typed that, but I suspect the argument could be made for "ever" if we could agree on our operating definitions.

gittes wrote:
These groups have been mostly let down by each president since Nixon was forced out. Truth is, many chose the lesser of two evils. After all, Romney was calling them "takers" and threatening to destroy what few government services remain for these groups. You might say Democratic policies are simply "buying" votes and you would be right to a degree. However, a government that refuses to help its less fortunate, and more importantly provide greater opportunity and reasonable security is, to quote Richard Nixon, "not worth the sweat off my balls."

I strongly disagree with the claim that Romney characterized young people or minorities as "takers." That is simply untrue, though it was the false impression Obama's team spent its fortunes and enlisted its media allies to create. At most, at the worst and most cynical reading of Romney's 47% comment, he implied that folks who voted for Obama were takers, but that did not present Obama as the lesser of two evils, it gave people a choice of what they wanted to consider themselves. Although I will grant that some people, less informed, may have believed that false narrative because Obama was happy to peddle it at great and destructive expense to our nation.

On the broader point, you have pinpointed exactly the Molly tragedy: Obama has absolutely reduced and restricted "greater opportunity" and instead given stagnation and decline to those constituencies, whereas Romney offered "greater opportunity and reasonable security" with the ability to restore America's promise and a thriving economy. She voted against her own interests if she bought into The Lie.

Government can protect the less fortunate without taking from producers by force, spending far beyond its means, or destroying the fundamentals of a sound economy. Government is most successful when it is limited: maybe THAT is exactly what made America the greatest country: true liberty created the nation of opportunity. As we sing, she is "the land of the free, and the home of the brave."

Government ought to work in partnership with, rather than denigration of, the private sector. Government should create and protect a level playing field (court systems to prevent fraud), but it should not create "unlevel" fields in opposite directions to right past wrongs, or replace efficiency and freedom with broken buerocracy and mandates.

gittes wrote:
Can one include the corporations in the parasite category?

Wait, I saw your line about "producers and job creators." Are they more deserving of rights and government goodies simply because they are wealthy? This is not a question meant to bait or goad, but a direct attempt to see what you think and why Mr. Steel.

Corporations can be parasitic, and they do not deserve rights and goodies denied to others. But again, when the right answer is liberty and equality (with maybe a dash of fraternité thrown in for good measure), you let companies (and the people behind them) have opportunity to succeed and celebrate that success, rather than trying to destroy them because they succeeded where others did not.

I think the idea of parasite companies and corporate handouts is far overstated, but should be addressed. I do believe, though, that our existing legal framework (protections against fraud, coercion, and exploitation of people and certain common goods) was more than sufficient to protect without undermining economic growth. Now we have a system that redistributes a shrinking pie, with borrowed ice cream (and no way to pay for it) to go on top.

Most companies do tremendous good in the world, are not evil, and offer the very things we most desperately need (good jobs that are actually justified and not governmental pseudo-welfare, for starters). But Obama has waged war on businesses, and you can ask Molly about the results of that approach.

I bet you could find out who everyone in America voted for by asking one single question (if they were informed enough to have an opinion): was Bain capital a triumph and exactly what we need more of, or was Bain capital the problem? The real issue with that question, though, is that very few know the truth about Bain. The guy with no record to run on spent an awful lot of money (donated by one RSP regular, I believe) to malign with mendacity instead of inform or inspire.

Quote:
His [Bush's] disaster was so complete, that like James Buchanan, it will be about 30-40- years before it is mostly mitigated. Even then, the effects of Buchanan are felt each time the South votes like the Civil War is still ongoing.

Of course, even Reagan dropped the "blame Carter" schtick after his first term. Same goes with FDR in relation to Hoover. If anything, Obama failed to properly use a rhetorical tool that few presidents have ever possessed.

I don't hold quite so poor an opinion of Bush as most of America, but I do think he was not the brightest bulb, and he certainly did not exercise financial discipline at all. That was his greatest failing, and the tragedy is that it is one of many ways Obama has effectively served as Bush's third (and now fourth) term. My really liberal friends are most frustrated with Obama because of global bloodshed, drone strikes, endless spending and debt, and regular extensions of tax cuts that are widening the massive hole in the budget (that is if we ever actually passed a budget).

Obama had a perfect, unpopular predecessor (and really, that's the secret to winning elections in America), but he was somewhat hindered in criticizing the reckless spending, Patriot Act, and so forth when in many categories he was demonstrably far worse than those admittedly egregious problems.
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Sean Chick (Formerly Paul O'Sullivan)
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Well, I'm afraid it'll have to wait. Whatever it was, I'm sure it was better than my plan to get out of this by pretending to be mad. I mean, who would have noticed another madman round here?
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Blue Steel wrote:
Well, the greatest economy right now (despite the destruction of the last few years), and the country that was the shining beacon to the world of tolerance, productivity, inclusion, innovation, and various ideals. Greatest is probably subjective, and it might be tough to compare the US with various countries and empires from global history. I was thinking in terms of "right now" and my opinion when I typed that, but I suspect the argument could be made for "ever" if we could agree on our operating definitions.


I admit I am partial to Rome, Britain, and France, but we stack up nicely with each of them.

Quote:
]I strongly disagree with the claim that Romney characterized young people or minorities as "takers." That is simply untrue, though it was the false impression Obama's team spent its fortunes and enlisted its media allies to create. At most, at the worst and most cynical reading of Romney's 47% comment, he implied that folks who voted for Obama were takers, but that did not present Obama as the lesser of two evils, it gave people a choice of what they wanted to consider themselves. Although I will grant that some people, less informed, may have believed that false narrative because Obama was happy to peddle it at great and destructive expense to our nation.


Even with the benefit of the doubt over the 47%, his recent phone conversation was revealing. I heard a bitter man with a strong sense of class superiority, almost vaguely aristocratic. In 1685 an English rebel declared, before he was hanged "I am sure there was no man born marked of God above another; for none comes into the world with a saddle on his back, neither any booted and spurred to ride him." No truer wisdom was ever uttered. Regardless, Romney's 47% comment made him look like the lesser of two evils. I am sure I am nothing to him but an ant.

What is this choice you speak of?

Quote:
On the broader point, you have pinpointed exactly the Molly tragedy: Obama has absolutely reduced and restricted "greater opportunity" and instead given stagnation and decline to those constituencies, whereas Romney offered "greater opportunity and reasonable security" with the ability to restore America's promise and a thriving economy. She voted against her own interests if she bought into The Lie.


Yet wage stagnation and the yawning gap between classes started in our conservative era. To say these are creatures of Obama is to miss the larger trend. I would agree Obama is not doing enough to combat it, but that is because he is to the right of Eisenhower and Nixon.

Quote:
Government can protect the less fortunate without taking from producers by force, spending far beyond its means, or destroying the fundamentals of a sound economy. Government is most successful when it is limited: maybe THAT is exactly what made America the greatest country: true liberty created the nation of opportunity. As we sing, she is "the land of the free, and the home of the brave."

Government ought to work in partnership with, rather than denigration of, the private sector. Government should create and protect a level playing field (court systems to prevent fraud), but it should not create "unlevel" fields in opposite directions to right past wrongs, or replace efficiency and freedom with broken buerocracy and mandates.


Let's settle some terms.

Define what it means to "take" from the "producers." Define limited government and why this is superior. Also, do not conflate a large government with communism or fascism. Also, how is our government going to "create "unlevel" fields in opposite directions to right past wrongs, or replace efficiency and freedom with broken buerocracy and mandates"

Quote:
I think the idea of parasite companies and corporate handouts is far overstated, but should be addressed. I do believe, though, that our existing legal framework (protections against fraud, coercion, and exploitation of people and certain common goods) was more than sufficient to protect without undermining economic growth. Now we have a system that redistributes a shrinking pie, with borrowed ice cream (and no way to pay for it) to go on top.


Please explain then how we arrived at this point after 30 years of conservative governance and policy. Furthermore, why blame non-corporate entities, although these have less power and gain fewer favors from government.

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Most companies do tremendous good in the world, are not evil, and offer the very things we most desperately need (good jobs that are actually justified and not governmental pseudo-welfare, for starters). But Obama has waged war on businesses, and you can ask Molly about the results of that approach.


How did he wage war on them?

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I don't hold quite so poor an opinion of Bush as most of America, but I do think he was not the brightest bulb, and he certainly did not exercise financial discipline at all. That was his greatest failing, and the tragedy is that it is one of many ways Obama has effectively served as Bush's third (and now fourth) term. My really liberal friends are most frustrated with Obama because of global bloodshed, drone strikes, endless spending and debt, and regular extensions of tax cuts that are widening the massive hole in the budget (that is if we ever actually passed a budget).

Obama had a perfect, unpopular predecessor (and really, that's the secret to winning elections in America), but he was somewhat hindered in criticizing the reckless spending, Patriot Act, and so forth when in many categories he was demonstrably far worse than those admittedly egregious problems.


Outside of being too generous to Bush (I personally hope he falls into a vat of acid) I really don't disagree here. I think your final paragraph is the best thing you've said on RSP that I have seen.
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