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Star Trek: Fleet Captains – Romulan Empire» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Romulans vs. Klingons rss

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Jonathan Onufryk
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Maybe it's just our group, but it seems that in a Romulan vs. Klingon game that Klingons tend to be disadvantaged unless they have the Maht-h'a on the board. They seem to get few attack opportunities against romulans and their sensors aren't quite strong enough to be effective in scanning cloak tokens (a 15 sensor test being tough for almost any individual Klingon ship). Perhaps it's a strategy failing on the part of the people who play Klingons in our group, but I thought I'd ask anyway.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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You need to decloak to do most good stuff.

Stalk.
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Thomas Leitner
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Unless I am misunderstanding the rules, I see two problems with just stalking.

One, a cloaked ship can put out multiple echos, each of which moves independently. The stalking player has zero idea which cloak chit to stalk.

Two, the new cloaking rule makes stalking even less effective. A cloaked ship can decloak with a power adjustment, use an action to do something useful, then use 5 movement points to recloak.

Not sure how the Klingons, or anyone with majority combat oriented ships, are supposed to deal with that.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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MDJD wrote:

Not sure how the Klingons, or anyone with majority combat oriented ships, are supposed to deal with that.


Try it.

Dropping in and out of cloak essentially takes a turn longer than it should to complete a mission since you have to go 'park' to do your decloak and mission complete next turn.

Realize how much slower the cloaked ships have to move to do that drop in and out of cloaking thing. You can send a ship or two into their territory, throw out some scans, complete your missions, and you're generally moving a space further than them.

Here's where I LOVE the mission cycling rule, as opposed to many here. You have to figure your strategic chances.
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B Patterson
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onufryk wrote:
They seem to get few attack opportunities against romulans and their sensors aren't quite strong enough to be effective in scanning cloak tokens (a 15 sensor test being tough for almost any individual Klingon ship).


I usually create Task Forces when playing the Klingons. Try leap frogging your ships in a straight line (its only 4 tiles) over to the Romulan side with scan actions to be safe. Then create one or two Task Forces, sensor their cloaks and attack if you get it right with the extra action. Also don't cloak unless you really need too or want to confuse their Warbirds.
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Paul DeStefano
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WFPII wrote:

I usually create Task Forces when playing the Klingons.


If you get a couple of the little guys, this is absolutely the way to go.
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Aleksandar Vjestica
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Knowing your subdecks and choosing right ones is the key for winning.

Never underestimate small ships capabilities

15 VP game
situation: Pi versus neghvar

Having IKS Negh'var put into red alert, badly damaged by IRW Valdore and IRW Devoras, the klingon decides to cloak and retreat from the sector toward independent starbase for repairs. On the next turn romulan decides to move an echo near negh'var to its location. By using IRW Pi "minelayer" special ability as an action, echo detonates and deals 1 last damage to cloaked IKS Negh'var, encountering no resistance from its shields.

decks:
the tal shiar,
manipulation agenda
balance of terror
invisible threat
 
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Mercutio Wycliffe
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You can't take an action against a cloaked ship.
 
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Aleksandar Vjestica
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Don't the text on the cards overrule the rulebook rules?
And then, the ship card mentiones "...a single enemy ship...", nohing about uncloaked or cloaked, or damaged...
It's not a direct action against a ship, it's about activation of the echo as a location's minefield and forcing! A ship to take system test.

And why is it everyone think Klingons are weak when comparing them to Romulans? They use the same rules for cloaking.

Played as a Klingon controller also and if you want to win like a Klingon, you have to fight as a Klingon!

Qapla
 
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Mercutio Wycliffe
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chichiriba wrote:
Don't the text on the cards overrule the rulebook rules?
And then, the ship card mentiones "...a single enemy ship...", nohing about uncloaked or cloaked, or damaged...
It's not a direct action against a ship, it's about activation of the echo as a location's minefield and forcing! A ship to take system test.

And why is it everyone think Klingons are weak when comparing them to Romulans? They use the same rules for cloaking.

Played as a Klingon controller also and if you want to win like a Klingon, you have to fight as a Klingon!

Qapla

Even so, you would have to prove that the Klingon Token was a ship, even if it is the only one on the board.
 
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Aleksandar Vjestica
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I apologize for my poor description of the situation. The klingon ship cloaked with an action to avoid breakaway from the dderidex and valdore and moved in a position where the minelayer is detonated at next romulan's turn. There were no klingon echo deployed from that ship. Thematically, I tracked his whereabouts. That's the reason why echo and cloak tokens exist, right? The romulan player knew that cloaked ship moved into that location. If that was an echo token PI's action would be forfeit?
 
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Mercutio Wycliffe
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To force the Negh'Var to make a shields test is an action against that ship. To take such an action, you would have to scan it first.

You say the Romulan player knew it was a ship, but the thematic Romulans inside the little plastic ships need to know.
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Željan Sudeta
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Hi,

I rememberd a card "Ejecting the core" or something like that which causes all the ships in the sector to take one damage. So if you have cloak tokens in the sector you have to show the cloak tokens to prove that those tokens are echoes or your ship. If it is your real ship it takes one damage if it is echo nothing happens.

From the rulebook:

Encounters and Missions While Cloaked:
Encounters or missions can affect cloaked ships or Sensor Echoes you control. If you must make a permanent adjustment to a cloaked ship (such as taking damage), or if you earn victory points (by completing a mission, for example), and it is not clear to your opponent which token is the real ship, you must show him that the Cloak Token affected by the encounter or mission is a particular ship (or show that it is a Sensor Echo that can ignore the event).


Now about the PI minelayer ability
From the rulebook:

Cloaked ships are invisible, but this limits the ship’s other Systems. Usually, the ship must Disable its Weapons, Shields, and Sensors. But, it is much harder for the enemy to find and attack a cloaked ship. While a ship is cloaked:
• It may not take any actions other than Cloaking Actions unless a card or ability allows it to.
It may not be the target of an attack from any ship.
• It does not need to make any Breakaway Rolls or Evasion Rolls.
It may not be the target of any Systems Test from any other ship except a Scan Action
attempting to reveal a Cloak Token.
• It does not explore new locations when it moves.
_________

So the thing in question is does the wording " force a single enemy ship in the echo's location" means the same as targeting that ship. If it does than the PI minelayer ability cannot be used against an opponent cloaked ship/echo, if it doesn't than it can be used.


The wording is sometimes a ...... devil
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Aleksandar Vjestica
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Seems there are so many rule lawyers on BGG :)...
There is another example, "Captain Sela" with her action ability when she reveals all echoes...
Does "...enemy ship(s)..." mean "uncloaked" or "cloaked" ships?

So the best conclusion is to let ourselves enjoy our games as we see fit while designers decide to write FAQ entry about our particular issue.

Happy gaming!
 
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Lieutenant Jason
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TribbleOfBorg is correct, as usual. As stated above, "While a ship is cloaked: It may not be the target of any Systems Test from any other ship except a Scan Action attempting to reveal a Cloak Token." The Pi cannot put the cloaked ship to a Shields Test because its exact location is undetermined, which is also why Weapons cannot be fired at it.

On the other hand, if you had Deanna Troi on your ship, the situation might be different. . . .
 
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Mercutio Wycliffe
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chichiriba wrote:
Seems there are so many rule lawyers on BGG ...
There is another example, "Captain Sela" with her action ability when she reveals all echoes...
Does "...enemy ship(s)..." mean "uncloaked" or "cloaked" ships?

So the best conclusion is to let ourselves enjoy our games as we see fit while designers decide to write FAQ entry about our particular issue.

Happy gaming!

I believe Sela's Combat function is different because it affects all ships in the location(s) friend or foe; no specific ship is targeted. This would be resolved like an Encounter/Location Effect. Each player with a cloak token in the location would have to reveal whether or not it was a ship.

Also, just because somebody knows the rules doesn't mean somebody else has to play that way. Having my rules questions answered was the primary reason why I joined BGG in the first place.

Enjoy the game pieces as you see fit. Happy gaming.
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