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Subject: A few questions regarding a specific play. rss

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R Green
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The situation in question:

An approaching ship stops just out of L range. My ship is at an island and docked. The following turn I was expected to explore, but instead I moved into firing range and, utilizing my captain crew member, fired. Is this allowed? Can I skip the exploration of a wild island and just immediately leave?

In the same situation, my specific ship configuration was the HMS Grand Temple (English junk packing four 2L and two 3S cannons with an S+S movement speed and pirates allowed as crew.) crewed by Hermione Gold (Captain, Helmsman) and Le Requin (Born Leader). When I moved, I rolled a five, allowing me to act twice. I chose to move twice. A captain allows me a free shoot action when I move.

Using the 2011 update FAQ, we found these applicable rules under "Captain":

Quote:
The “shoot” provided by this ability is considered a free shoot action for the purposes of all other rules and abilities.

This ability applies as part of the move action, after all of the ship’s movement segments have been completed.

The this ability cannot be combined with the ability that allows a ship to “move as a free action” after shooting, AKA the “Reverse-Captain” ability. The Captain ability requires a non-free move action, while the Reverse-Captain ability requires a non-free shoot action.


...and this under "Born Leader":

Quote:
Only the primary action (move, shoot, repair, or explore) is repeated, and it is considered a full action. Abilities, free actions, and other effects that would be triggered by the action may be applied to either or both of the actions, as applicable. The use of an ability during the first action does not require (or prevent) the use of that ability during the second action, unless the ability was specifically limited to “once per turn”.


This seems to imply that I can move, fire, move again, and fire a second time because the second move is a full action, not a free action, and no where in the Captain rules does it say that it's once per turn and it's "after all of the ship’s movement segments" clause seems to apply to a single move action, not multiple as it states "the move action", not actions.

Using this interpretation with my ship's setup meant I fired twelve times in a single turn, eight of those shots with 2L cannons and the four with 3S cannons. I sank the five mast ship in a matter of seconds. We both agreed that it was ridiculous, but allowed it until we could find someone that could better explain the rules. We're new to this, so I'm sure something went wrong. I mean, I could potentially move 3S near one ship and fire four or six cannons (depending on my range) and move another 3S to a different ship and fire four or six cannons again. That seems a bit overpowered.
 
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Kyle
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g3rDaPirate wrote:
The situation in question:

An approaching ship stops just out of L range. My ship is at an island and docked. The following turn I was expected to explore, but instead I moved into firing range and, utilizing my captain crew member, fired. Is this allowed? Can I skip the exploration of a wild island and just immediately leave?

You're not forced to explore the island. Depending on the situation (like this one) it's often better to not explore until you come back later.

Quote:
This seems to imply that I can move, fire, move again, and fire a second time because the second move is a full action, not a free action, and no where in the Captain rules does it say that it's once per turn and it's "after all of the ship’s movement segments" clause seems to apply to a single move action, not multiple as it states "the move action", not actions.

Using this interpretation with my ship's setup meant I fired twelve times in a single turn, eight of those shots with 2L cannons and the four with 3S cannons. I sank the five mast ship in a matter of seconds. We both agreed that it was ridiculous, but allowed it until we could find someone that could better explain the rules. We're new to this, so I'm sure something went wrong. I mean, I could potentially move 3S near one ship and fire four or six cannons (depending on my range) and move another 3S to a different ship and fire four or six cannons again. That seems a bit overpowered.
Sounds like you played it correctly. Those abilities that give extra actions can be extremely overpowered with certain setups, especially large ships like Grand Temple.

That's the reason the rules limit ships to onlt two full actions in a single turn - prior to that you could chain several of those abilities together to give a ship three, four, or even more actions in a turn.

It's also common for players to add a house rule that restricts extra action abilities so they're not so useful or can't be used at all.
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R Green
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Thanks for the quick reply. We've actually thought of another question about this session.

The HMS Grand Temple is a junk and the movement rules tell you to start measuring at the bow and sweep the card you're measuring with in an arc to determine the maximum angle that you can turn with any specific movement segment. Would this mean that a junk can only turn 90° with any movement segment? Do you have to start measuring from the middle of the bow? Or are we misunderstanding the movement rules?
 
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Kyle
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g3rDaPirate wrote:
The HMS Grand Temple is a junk and the movement rules tell you to start measuring at the bow and sweep the card you're measuring with in an arc to determine the maximum angle that you can turn with any specific movement segment. Would this mean that a junk can only turn 90° with any movement segment? Do you have to start measuring from the middle of the bow? Or are we misunderstanding the movement rules?
You can pick either point where the bow touches the table, which gives Junks a slight advantage over other ships because of their straight hulls. If you pick the port(left) point for example, it could turn a full 180° to the left but would be limited to only 90° to the right. Most other ships are restricted to something less than 180° because of the curvature of their hulls.

This file should be a lot of help with movement (page 5 in particular): Pirates Reference Diagrams
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Scott Schelter
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Woelf wrote:
It's also common for players to add a house rule that restricts extra action abilities so they're not so useful or can't be used at all.


Hi Woelf, I appreciate all you have done for this game, and your perspectives on the rules. Can you elaborate a little bit on this house rule? How exactly have you heard this being applied?

Thanks
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Kyle
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Shelter wrote:
Woelf wrote:
It's also common for players to add a house rule that restricts extra action abilities so they're not so useful or can't be used at all.


Hi Woelf, I appreciate all you have done for this game, and your perspectives on the rules. Can you elaborate a little bit on this house rule? How exactly have you heard this being applied?

Thanks
The simplest way is to just say that the extra action abilities can't be used at all. I've used that myself more than a few times.

Another method I've heard a few times (but never used) is to limit abilities like the Captain and Helmsman to once per turn so in the scenario above you could only shoot once with the double move.
 
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