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Subject: 5 and/or 6 player Variant rss

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Ben Irons
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Has anyone else come across the problem where your gaming table consists of more than 4 people? Our table played a 5 player game without any mods to the rules and we fear it might have become too easy. We're considering some of the following rules adjustments and was curious for others' input.

-Entering a tile for the first time adds another cheese to the minion wheel.

-If a minion generates at least 1 cheese for the minion wheel, they generate an additional cheese.

-When spawning an encounter the surge appears as well.

-When a surge occurs, add another regular minion to the tile.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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If you don't mind playing them as one off encounters, there are some chapters that involve all 6 mice.
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Jon Ben
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Of course I've been up all night! Not because of caffeine, it was insomnia. I couldn't stop thinking about coffee.
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PlaidViking wrote:
-Entering a tile for the first time adds another cheese to the minion wheel.

This is fine but you could easily just start on page 2, or with the end marker one page earlier. My point is that the number of cheese from this is a constant for a chapter so why not just dump it on the wheel at the beginning instead of having to remember this during the game.

Quote:
-If a minion generates at least 1 cheese for the minion wheel, they generate an additional cheese.

This seems too harsh, but maybe it isn't.

Quote:
-When spawning an encounter the surge appears as well.

Something like this is needed. There must be more enemies if there are more mice. You could add +1 or +2 minions of one of the types being spawned. I think modifying the encounter cards is a good way to start making modifications. Here are some thoughts I've had on this:
-Use the difficult encounters (obviously)
-Consider them all to have the ambush keyword (they already have mousetrap)
-Spawn minions from a higher page number (perhaps current page+3)

Quote:
-When a surge occurs, add another regular minion to the tile.

This is a good idea too but can't be the only change since lack of surges is the problem.

I've also been considering:
-Having Brodie's cheese rolls go to the wheel to make facing him more terrifying. But since he only shows up sometimes this won't really help tighten all chapters.
-Removing the end page movement of roach master. We always get this achievement and it's pretty trivial to do.

I've been considering these things with the base number of mice but haven't had a chance to play test them yet. I played 6 chapters over the weekend and we won them all pretty handily. Switching to difficult encounters made a bit of a difference but not enough. I think next time I play I'll implement the ambush keyword and page+3 for spawning and see if that helps.
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Ray Greenley
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Similar to what Jon said, I think the key will be more minions. I'd probably add an extra minion per extra player (eg 1 for 5 players and 2 for 6 players) for an initial encounter (new tile), and add a minion per extra player on a surge, too. After that, I don't think you'd need to do a whole lot more, although you'll want to play-test a bit to see how the balance is.

I'd be wary of pushing cheese to the cheese wheel faster. It might work, though.

Shifting up the hourglass and The End marker could also increase the difficulty (for instance, instead of starting the hourglass on Page 1 and the The End marker on, say, page 5, start the hourglass on 2 and The End on 6). This should get you into harder encounters faster.
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L. Bogerly
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RMGreen wrote:


I'd be wary of pushing cheese to the cheese wheel faster. It might work, though.



This is my intuition as well. Adding minions should be sufficient. Since the cheese wheel will fill faster with more minions to fight (more minion attack/defense rolls), I would think adding extra cheese would be un-necessary for purposes of upping the difficulty. Of course, play-testing is better than pontificating.

Though from a game-play perspective, simply adding 25-50% more attack dice rolls to the game that you'd get from 25-50% more minions would not necessarily make for a fun game.
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J W
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Any updates to this? Often not everyone from my gaming group has time and we also search for a way to adjust the scenarios for varying amounts of people.

How was your experience with those game changes adding some additional minions?
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Jonathan Hersey
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I think this is a good idea and we should come up with a good solution as doing so will greatly expand the the game.

I'm with those who think adding more cheese to the wheel is a bad idea. Surges bring the end of the game closer, if you add more minions (which already will help add more cheese to the wheel) and you increase the ways/quantity cheese is added to the wheel all you're doing is bringing about the end of the game sooner. You could then fiddle with where the end token starts but then you bring into question the reason for adding more cheese in the first place and also make the 5 to 6 player addition more complicated.

I like:
-use only advanced encounter cards + ambush
-when drawing a new encounter, select the monsters that are 2 chapters higher than the current one (or something similar) so if you were on chapter 2 you would place monsters that are shown for chapter 4.
-more monsters need to be added but I'm not sure how to do this without more playtesting.

you could say +1 monster per extra player but my fear is that this won't accommodate the change in balance from the extra players. What I mean is this: say 4 players would normally encounter 3 rats but since you are playing with 6 you place 5 rats: does 6 players vs 5 rats feel more or less challenging than 4 players vs 3 rats?

ALso, when there are different monster types, how do you determine which type to use? you could just create a pecking order according to monster difficulty and always choose the more difficult monster, or you could say add 1 of each type.

Finally you have the problem of surges. surges that contain . . .Mini-bosses were mostly not designed to face more than 4 mice (save specific missions). Therefore you either need to increase the difficulty of the minion or add more monsters. If you add more monsters, what type and how many?

So it seems like our biggest problem is determining how to determine more monsters? Personally, what I would like to try and do is create a chart that contains the 6 different symbols on the dice (or just use 4 symbols and ignore surge symbols) and then reference a different monster (and perhaps quantity) to that symbol. When playing with 6 players roll 2 dice instead of 1. so maybe you could have the bow be elite rat warriors, the sword and shield normal rat warriors, the normal sword be 2 roaches, and finally the cheese adds a cheese to the minion wheel. Then again, this might just make the balance in difficulty go all over the place so I concede this might be a horrible idea
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Ben Asher
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I'd be concerned about the effects of using auto-ambush on the efficacy of filch (at least assuming he continues to use his dagger). He is already a very fun character to play whose dagger ability makes him very volatile (not ahead of the minions on initiative? too bad, so sad). He already suffers on ambush encounters, but making every encounter an ambush would really push him into too weak territory, in my opinion.

The other mice don't seem to suffer quite as much from ambush encounters, or, insofar as they do suffer, they suffer roughly equally. Further, Collin may actually benefit from ambushes, and to a lesser extent so may Tilda (or any given other mouse who is using First Aid, to an even lesser extent).

I think the ideal situation makes the encounters more difficult for the group as a whole, but does so in a fashion that's roughly equal across mice. In my mind the best suggestion offered so far is difficult encounters + hour glass / chapter end marker increased each by one per extra mouse (or alternatively, just read encounter cards as page + n=number of extra mice). Possibly with some addition of minions as well, but as has already been mentioned, figuring out how to add them is tough.
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David Peck
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Perhaps some of the more creative members could come up with a 5-6 player encounter deck? Then we could print off our own cards rather than try to come up with fudged numbers or deal with model limitations?

Update: The 9 Standard(STD) cards seem to have a paired Difficult(DIFF) card, so I just added a 3rd card(5to6) to those pairs and tried to up the difficulty:


Page1 Page2 Page3 Page4 Page5 Page6 Surge
STD MT 2Rat, 3Roach 3Rat 3E.Rat 1Cent, 4Roach 4Rat 2Rat, 2E.Rat Spider
DIFF MT 2E.Rat, 3Roach 3Rat 3E.Rat 1Cent, 5Roach 5Rat 3Rat, 2E.Rat Spider
5to6 MT 4E.Rat, 5Roach 5Rat 2Rat, 4E.Rat 1Cent, 7Roach 2Rat, 4E.Rat 2Rat, 4E.Rat Spider

Page1 Page2 Page3 Page4 Page5 Page6 Surge
STD AMB 6Roach 5G.Roach Spider, 2Rat Cent, 4Roach 4Rat 2Rat, 2E.Rat Spider
DIFF MT 7Roach 6G.Roach Spider, 3Rat Cent, 5Roach 5Rat 3Rat, 2E.Rat Spider
5to6 AMB,MT 2Rat, 8Roach 8G.Roach Spider, 4E.Rat Cent, 8Roach 7Rat 2Rat, 4E.Rat Spider

Page1 Page2 Page3 Page4 Page5 Page6 Surge
STD 3Rat 5G.Roach 2Rat, 4Roach Spider, Cent Cent, 3Rat 3E.Rat Spider
DIFF MT 3Rat 6G.Roach 3Rat, 3Roach Spider, Cent Cent, 3Rat 4E.Rat Spider
5to6 MT 4E.Rat 8G.Roach 4Rat, 4Roach Spider, Cent Cent, 5Rat 2Rat, 4E.Rat Spider

Page1 Page2 Page3 Page4 Page5 Page6 Surge
STD MT 5Roach 2Rat, 1E.Rat Cent, 2Rat 3E.Rat Spider, 3Rat 4Rat Centipede
DIFF MT 6Roach 6G.Roach Cent, 3Rat 3E.Rat Spider, 4Rat 4E.Rat Centipede
5to6 AMB,MT 8Roach 3Rat, 3E.Rat Cent, 5Rat 5E.Rat Spider, 6Rat 6E.Rat Centipede

Page1 Page2 Page3 Page4 Page5 Page6 Surge
STD MT 5G.Roach 2Rat, 3Roach Spider Cent, 2E.Rat 3E.Rat Spider, 3Rat Centipede
DIFF MT 6G.Roach 2Rat, 4Roach Spider, 4Roach Cent, 2E.Rat 4E.Rat Spider, 3Rat Centipede
5to6 AMB,MT 8G.Roach 2Rat, 8Roach Spider, 8Roach Cent, 4E.Rat 2Rat, 4E.Rat Spider, 4E.Rat Centipede

Page1 Page2 Page3 Page4 Page5 Page6 Surge
STD 3Rat 7Roach 2Rat, 4Roach Spider, 2E.Rat Cent, 3Rat 3E.Rat Centipede
DIFF MT 1Rat, 2E.Rat 5G.Roach Spider, 4Roach 4Rat Spider, Cent Spider, 2E.Rat Centipede
5to6 MT 2Rat, 3E.Rat 2E.Rat, 5G.RoachSpider, 8Roach Spider, 4E.Rat Cent, 4G.Roach Spider, 4E.Rat Centipede

Page1 Page2 Page3 Page4 Page5 Page6 Surge
STD 4Roach 2E.Rat, 2Roach Cent, 2Rat 3Rat 2Rat, 2E.Rat Spider, 2E.Rat 2 Rats
DIFF MT 5Roach 3E.Rat Cent, 3Rat 4Rat 2Rat, 2E.Rat Spider, 2E.Rat 2 Rats
5to6 MT 8Roach 2Rat, 3E.Rat Cent, 4Rat 4Rat, 2E.Rat 2Rat, 4E.Rat Spider, 4E.Rat 2 Rats, 2E.Rats

Page1 Page2 Page3 Page4 Page5 Page6 Surge
STD AMB 4G.Roach 6Roach Spider, 3Roach 3Rat 3E.Rat Spider, 2E.Rat 2 Rats
DIFF MT 2Rat, 1E.Rat 6G.Roach 2Rat, 4Roach Spider, 2E.Rat Cent, 3Rat 4E.Rat 2 Rats
5to6 AMB Cent, 2Roach 8G.Roach Spider, 6Roach 6E.Rat 3E.Rat, 3Rat Spider, 4E.Rat 2 Rats, 2E.Rats

Page1 Page2 Page3 Page4 Page5 Page6 Surge
STD 5G.Roach 3Rat 2Rat, 4Roach 2E.Rat, 3Roach Cent, 3Rat Spider, 2E.Rat 2 Rats
DIFF MT 6G.Roach 3Rat 2Rat, 5Roach 2E.Rat, 4Roach Cent, 3Rat Spider, 3E.Rat 2 Rats
5to6 AMB 8G.Roach 6Rat 3Rat, 8Roach 4E.Rat, 4Roach Cent, 5E.Rat Spider, 4E.Rat 2 Rats, 2E.Rats
Page1 Page2 Page3 Page4 Page5 Page6 Surge
STD 4Roach 2E.Rat, 2Roach Cent, 2Rat 3Rat 2Rat, 2E.Rat Spider, 2E.Rat 2 Rats
DIFF MT 5Roach 3E.Rat Cent, 3Rat 4Rat 2Rat, 2E.Rat Spider, 2E.Rat 2 Rats
5to6 MT 8Roach 2Rat, 3E.Rat Cent, 4Rat 4Rat, 2E.Rat 2Rat, 4E.Rat Spider, 4E.Rat 2 Rats, 2E.Rats

Page1 Page2 Page3 Page4 Page5 Page6 Surge
STD AMB 4G.Roach 6Roach Spider, 3Roach 3Rat 3E.Rat Spider, 2E.Rat 2 Rats
DIFF MT 2Rat, 1E.Rat 6G.Roach 2Rat, 4Roach Spider, 2E.Rat Cent, 3Rat 4E.Rat 2 Rats
5to6 AMB Cent, 2Roach 8G.Roach Spider, 6Roach 6E.Rat 3E.Rat, 3Rat Spider, 4E.Rat 2 Rats, 2E.Rats

Page1 Page2 Page3 Page4 Page5 Page6 Surge
STD 5G.Roach 3Rat 2Rat, 4Roach 2E.Rat, 3Roach Cent, 3Rat Spider, 2E.Rat 2 Rats
DIFF MT 6G.Roach 3Rat 2Rat, 5Roach 2E.Rat, 4Roach Cent, 3Rat Spider, 3E.Rat 2 Rats
5to6 AMB 8G.Roach 6Rat 3Rat, 8Roach 4E.Rat, 4Roach Cent, 5E.Rat Spider, 4E.Rat 2 Rats, 2E.Rats

*MT = Mousetrap
**AMB = Ambush



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David Peck
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Does anyone have a scan of a blank encounter card and a font suggestion?
 
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guinch Nudrevil
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There's a variant proposed by the Author : for each added player, generate 1 standard miniature or 2 small miniatures per encounter.
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michael ray
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In a 5 player game, let one guy play the bad guys, and change their movement rules to his choice (with dice roll) instead of the 'closest non-attacked mouse' rules.
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