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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: OL Cards at end of Quest in Campaign rss

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Jeff Davis
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OK - I MAY have been playing wrong - not sure (regarding OL cards between Quests in campaign).

Page 20 of Rulebook says (Campaign Phase) " The OL combines his draw and discard pile into one deck."

Page 22 of Rulebook says (Travel) "Before travel begins. the OL player may customize his deck. He then draws one card per hero. ... These OL cards are the OL's starting hand for the upcoming quest.

So, my question is: Between encounters the OL keeps all his cards he has in his hand (but does not get more (one per hero) at the start of the encounter), AND between quests, he has to start over with a new pick of cards (one per hero)?

I have been combining the Draw and Discard pile into one deck, NOT including my cards in my hand pile. So I have been starting each subsequent quest with way more than one-card-per-hero amount. (Been carrying over unused cards.)

Thank you

- SK
 
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Darren Nakamura
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At the beginning of each Quest, the Overlord may choose to customize his deck down to 15 cards, then he draws cards for as many heroes there are.

Between Encounter I and Encounter II of any given Quest, no Overlord cards move.

At the end of each Quest, the Overlord's draw pile, discard pile, hand, and unused cards (the ones he may or may not have thrown out to pare down to 15 cards) are all combined together again, to prepare for the next Quest, where the process begins again (though with potentially more cards from the Spend Experience phase).

In short, you should always start a Quest with as many cards in your hand as Heroes you're facing.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Step 7 says to "shuffle the Overlord deck" which we take to mean all cards in the quest. If you could carry cards over between quests, it would get rather ridiculous, especially at the last quest. The OL could just save all good cards, eventually have the entire deck in his hand, and guarantee a win on the final quest.

-shnar
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Jeff Davis
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Dexter345 wrote:
At the beginning of each Quest, the Overlord may choose to customize his deck down to 15 cards, then he draws cards for as many heroes there are.

Between Encounter I and Encounter II of any given Quest, no Overlord cards move.

At the end of each Quest, the Overlord's draw pile, discard pile, hand, and unused cards (the ones he may or may not have thrown out to pare down to 15 cards) are all combined together again, to prepare for the next Quest, where the process begins again (though with potentially more cards from the Spend Experience phase).

In short, you should always start a Quest with as many cards in your hand as Heroes you're facing.


NO wonder, as the game moved along, my OL was getting too strong LOL!

Is it just me or is the rulebook worded wrong? Is says Draw and Discard piles - says nothing of the cards in the hand. This lead me to believe the OL kept them. It was only when re-eading the TRAVEL section more closely, I realized keeping the cards may havebeen wrong.

- SK

PS Thank you for the fast response!
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Darren Nakamura
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Another way to think about it, is that during a Quest, there are five places where the Overlord cards can be:

Draw pile: Available to be drawn by the Overlord, but not playable until drawn.
Hand: Available to be played by the Overlord
Discard: Previously played cards, unavailable until the draw pile is depleted
Unused: Owned by the Overlord but not available for the current Quest
Unpurchased: Neither available for the current Quest nor owned by the Overlord, but can be purchased in a future Campaign Phase

However, between Quests, there are only two subsets of Overlord cards:

Owned: All of the Basic cards plus any previously purchased cards
Not Owned: Any unpurchased cards

Between Quests, you shouldn't be keeping track of any more than that. The cards that were in your hand don't remain in your hand; the draw pile, hand, discard, and unused cards all go into the "owned" cards pool after a Quest finishes.
 
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Jeff Davis
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shnar wrote:
Step 7 says to "shuffle the Overlord deck" which we take to mean all cards in the quest. If you could carry cards over between quests, it would get rather ridiculous, especially at the last quest. The OL could just save all good cards, eventually have the entire deck in his hand, and guarantee a win on the final quest.

-shnar


I was wrongfully assuming the "Overlord Deck" to be what was IN the deck at the time - ie, the Discard and Draw piles only. So on the first quest it would have contained ALL the cards, but on subsequent quests, it may have been fewer.

I DO realize I was playing it wrong - in fact, I caught myself on this - thats why I posted the question. So, I am not at all fighting the idea here. I am just trying to figure out WHY I made the mistake, and all I can think of the wording of Draw and Discard.

- SK
 
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Darren Nakamura
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No, I think your reasoning is sound. I just re-read that part of the rule book, and it isn't explicit about what to do with the cards in the Overlord's hand. It is ambiguous, but I'm pretty certain that the intention is not to allow the Overlord to carry cards over between Quests.
 
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Jeff Davis
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Dexter345 wrote:
No, I think your reasoning is sound. I just re-read that part of the rule book, and it isn't explicit about what to do with the cards in the Overlord's hand. It is ambiguous, but I'm pretty certain that the intention is not to allow the Overlord to carry cards over between Quests.


I have spent a LOT of time reading/studying this forum - and I do not see where anyone else was confused on this issue. In fact, "I" wasn't even confused on it until I realized my OL was getting more and more powerful as the quests moved on. So I started digging in deeper and deeper trying to figure it out. I was assuming I was doing something terribly wrong.

Which makes me wonder, if there is anyone else who has been doing what I was doing? I see a LOT of posts here where players are complaing the OL wins too easily - I wonder if there is anyone else out there who made or is making this mistake?

- SK
 
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Jeff Davis
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Dexter345 wrote:
Another way to think about it, is that during a Quest, there are five places where the Overlord cards can be:

Draw pile: Available to be drawn by the Overlord, but not playable until drawn.
Hand: Available to be played by the Overlord
Discard: Previously played cards, unavailable until the draw pile is depleted
Unused: Owned by the Overlord but not available for the current Quest
Unpurchased: Neither available for the current Quest nor owned by the Overlord, but can be purchased in a future Campaign Phase

However, between Quests, there are only two subsets of Overlord cards:

Owned: All of the Basic cards plus any previously purchased cards
Not Owned: Any unpurchased cards

Between Quests, you shouldn't be keeping track of any more than that. The cards that were in your hand don't remain in your hand; the draw pile, hand, discard, and unused cards all go into the "owned" cards pool after a Quest finishes.


Yeah, agreed! The first three you list - Draw, Discard, and Hand - WHY they only included Draw and Discard in the Rulebook to combine, is beyond me!
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Rafal Areinu
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OL can win too easily because of so many factors it's hard to even mention them all out!

1) the OL should be most experienced guy, so the heroes might be still struggling with rules
2) even is players know rules they might not work together too well, while OL has all of his tactics in his head
3) actually 2) in my group is not the case - our heroes talk about everything and find the solution together. This gives OL some disadvantage, IMHO, but he also hears every word of it, so should be able to figure out best way to interrupt heroes in most crucial part of their plan
4) heroes work together, but they are focusing on fighting monsters, not following the objectives
5) quest choices. Castle Daerion, anyone?
6) good monster choices, tailored against heroes, or towards given quest. As some people mentioned on the forums there are some monster choices in some quests that make winning for heroes close to impossible.
7) rule misinterpretations, forgetting about things etc.

Actually I believe 4), 5) and 7) are most common reasons for "overpowered" OLs.

In our group we made so many mistakes with rule readings that your original problem of not discarding hand between quests seems like nothing. For example we misread sweep on Giants as "attacks all heroes in range" instead "all figures in range" and we forgot to use sweep only with master giant. That was one big whooping for heroes, heh heh.
 
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demonhanz demonhanz
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Areinu wrote:
7) rule misinterpretations, forgetting about things etc.


This can also sometimes work in favor of the heroes. Sometimes, as OL, I find if I have one too many cards in my hand that I may delay or even forget to play them, especially if many things are going on. On the other hand, if I have a smaller hand, I tend to use my cards more effectively.
 
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Jacob Søgaard
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demonhanz wrote:
Sometimes, as OL, I find if I have one too many cards in my hand that I may delay or even forget to play them, especially if many things are going on. On the other hand, if I have a smaller hand, I tend to use my cards more effectively.


So true!
 
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Jeff Davis
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So...ummmm...basically I am the only person who combined the deck wrong at the end of quests? I am the ONLY one who took "combine Draw and Discard deck" literally? O.o! shake
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Probably not, but perhaps the only person on this forum.
 
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Jeff Davis
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Dexter345 wrote:
Probably not, but perhaps the only person on this forum.


Well, I don't know whether I should feel special, or stupid - I think I will go with "special", for obvious reasons
 
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Logan B
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Don't forget travel phase can alter your starting overlord hand so you always draw your inital hand of cards before the heros travel to chosen quest.
 
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Jim Jim
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I have also been making the same mistake, so don't worry about it. I went through the rule book and found no reference to discarding unused OL cards between quests. Unfortunately i'm obviously a rubbish overlord as I've only won 2 quests and we're just about to play the finale.

I do question the need to distinguish between draw pile and discard pile in the rules however, if your just going to shuffle them all together anyway.
 
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Jeff Davis
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magicwallis wrote:
I have also been making the same mistake, so don't worry about it. I went through the rule book and found no reference to discarding unused OL cards between quests. Unfortunately i'm obviously a rubbish overlord as I've only won 2 quests and we're just about to play the finale.

I do question the need to distinguish between draw pile and discard pile in the rules however, if your just going to shuffle them all together anyway.


FINALLY! Someone else here who made the same "mistake" - I don't feel as "special" anymore!

- SK
 
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