Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
14 Posts

Merchant of Venus (second edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Must you end movement to upgrade a pilot? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jason Innes
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
In our first playthrough, the question came up about whether you have to end your movement to upgrade a pilot, or whether you could simply pass through Galactic Base and upgrade to level 2 while on the move.

The rule (p.25, Upgrading Pilots): "During his Move step, the current player may upgrade his pilot from level 1 to level 2 by landing his ship at Galactic Base and paying c60 to the bank."

The rule does say that you "land" to do the upgrade, which implies that you have to end your movement (since landing ends movememnt). And that does seem to fit the spirit/logic of the game, fwiw. But if that's the case, why do the rules go out of their way to say that this happens "during" the move step; why not just make it part of the Transaction phase?

Any thoughts? Does this strike anyone else as a gray area?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dustin Schwartz
United States
Jackson
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
www.therulesforge.com
badge
Get your slimy, webbed phalanges off ma boots!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been unsure here as well. I hear what you are saying about having to land being a good logical fit, but then, you don't have to land to pick up passengers either (and that's true even without the shuttle technology).

Sorry I'm of no help.

Related question: do you have to "land" (i.e. end movement) to purchase a 2nd mission, or to purchase discarded reward cards?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Innes
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
FreedomGunfire wrote:
...you don't have to land to pick up passengers either (and that's true even without the shuttle technology)...


Hmm -- but picking up and dropping off passengers happens during the Transaction Phase, which is implicitly after movement is complete. My confusion about pilots -- and the other Galactic Base transactions that you mentioned -- arises because the rules say these happen during the Move step, suggesting you can keep moving afterwards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Since the rules do explicitly say you have to "land", that would imply to me that your movement is over, since landing does end your movement.

The upgrade happens as part of your move step, but I don't think you can continue moving after doing it because of the requirement to land. I think there are some pilot abilities that can trigger during the Transaction phase (I believe the Qossoth have one, if I recall), and as such, having you upgrade during the "move" just makes it clear that you can use the newly upgraded pilot for that.

As for passengers not requiring "landing", the rules DO require that you be "at a surface city or spaceport"; I'm not sure how that differs from landing, since you can only pick up and drop off passengers during the Transaction phase (or, with Shuttles, either during the Set Speed or End Movement step - ie, not DURING movement itself).

Perhaps I'm missing something though.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dustin Schwartz
United States
Jackson
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
www.therulesforge.com
badge
Get your slimy, webbed phalanges off ma boots!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
True - picking up passengers is part of the "Transaction Phase" but does not count as a transaction. Tricky.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Purple Paladin

California
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We have been playing that if you have to be "at" a planet/station, that you must have landed there (or started your turn there).

Can you really pick up passengers just by moving though at warp speed?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
FreedomGunfire wrote:
True - picking up passengers is part of the "Transaction Phase" but does not count as a transaction. Tricky.

It's a transaction, it's just not a buy or sell action. The rules don't limit the number of transactions you can do; they only limit the number of buy and sell actions you can do when you first land. The passenger-related actions are transactions you can do in an unlimited number
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Purple Paladin wrote:
Can you really pick up passengers just by moving though at warp speed?

No, because you can only pick up passengers during the Transaction step. Or, if you are using shuttles, you can only pick them up before or after actually moving (not DURING movement). Without shuttles, you must be at the city or spaceport (which means you landed there).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dr. snowMan
Canada
Kitchener
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
jinnes wrote:
But if that's the case, why do the rules go out of their way to say that this happens "during" the move step; why not just make it part of the Transaction phase?


A possible reason for this is to require you to have the pilot upgrade money ready before you do your buy/sell transactions.

Not like it would be broken to do it otherwise, but it could be a design choice to make it slightly more difficult to upgrade your pilot.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Innes
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Thanks for the thoughts, all. I agree with the general assessment that pilot upgrades require you to land, i.e. stop your movement, and that was how we adjudicated it at the time too.

FWIW, this question came up in our game on the first turn. I started with a mission card that required me to have a level two pilot at a particular planet. So, I wanted to upgrade my pilot right away (blowing all my starting 60c, but I figured I could use first contact cash to buy initial goods later). In the end I couldn't bear to skip my first turn movement and end up a turn behind on the land rush, so I didn't upgrade on turn 1 after all. (I lost!)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Colin Marsh
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
ahh, get it off.. get it... GET IT OFF!!
badge
ahh, get it off.. get it... GET IT OFF!!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the design of it assumed that people would begin their turns doing it. once you end your movement at the Starbase the movement phase is over which I interpret as meaning you can't upgrade your pilot.

however, the first thing you do beginning on your next turn is upgrade your pilot.

that's how we played anyway.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
colinmarsh wrote:
I think the design of it assumed that people would begin their turns doing it. once you end your movement at the Starbase the movement phase is over which I interpret as meaning you can't upgrade your pilot.

The last step of the "Movement Phase" is "End Movement," which includes "landing (your) ship or by spending (your) entire movement."

Thus, landing on the Starbase is explicitly part of the Movement Phase
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carlos Alves
Portugal
Setubal
Setubal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
To upgrade or pick/drop passengers, you must end your movement phase by landing any spaceport/surface city.

Upgrading pilot and passanger is part of transaction phase.

Quote:
Upgrading Pilots

Throughout the game, a player may upgrade his pilot’s level to enhance the pilot’s skills and abilities:

• Upgrade to level 2: During his Move step, the current player may upgrade his pilot from level 1 to level 2 by landing his ship at Galactic Base and paying c60 to the bank. He then flips his Pilot card to its level 2 side.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BGFreakDag2PT wrote:
To upgrade or pick/drop passengers, you must end your movement phase by landing any spaceport/surface city.

Upgrading pilot and passanger is part of transaction phase.

Loading/unloading passengers is part of the transaction phase (except with Shuttles), but the rule you quoted specifically says that Upgrading pilots is part of the MOVE step (which is part of the movement phase), not the Transaction phase.

On page 26, it emphasizes this further by saying if you choose to skip your movement phase, you can upgrade your pilot "prior to starting (your) Transaction phase".
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.