Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
33 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

The Great Zimbabwe» Forums » Rules

Subject: 2 questions about craftsmen after first play rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
UA Darth
United States
Boca Raton
FL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
1. Can you build more primary craftsmen for victory points if the secondary is already out?

2. Similar to the first question, can one player build multiple of the same type of craftsman just for the victory points?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Gottesman
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes to both. #2 is also a good way to monopolize the market for a certain good.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nate S
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Also building more craftsmen means more resources will be available for their use, and they'll be in more locations for range purposes.

Don't forget that secondary craftsmen need the goods produced by primary craftsmen.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
UA Darth
United States
Boca Raton
FL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ghorsche wrote:
Also building more craftsmen means more resources will be available for their use, and they'll be in more locations for range purposes.

Don't forget that secondary craftsmen need the goods produced by primary craftsmen.


For your first sentence, I don't believe that to have to be the case. You could keep building craftsman around one single resource, no?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mfl134
United States
Havertown
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
My words literally betray me.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
shadow9d9 wrote:
ghorsche wrote:
Also building more craftsmen means more resources will be available for their use, and they'll be in more locations for range purposes.

Don't forget that secondary craftsmen need the goods produced by primary craftsmen.


For your first sentence, I don't believe that to have to be the case. You could keep building craftsman around one single resource, no?


Each new craftsman (of an existing type) brings at least 1 new resource into play.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Gottesman
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No, every craftsman must have exclusive access to at least 1 resource. They can overlap other than that.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
UA Darth
United States
Boca Raton
FL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I gotcha. However, if there are 3 primary crafters out there, you could build 3 secondary craftsman by using those same 3 resources used by the primary though, correct?

Also, unrelated: If you use a hub, you pay the bank(unless the god is used). If you use a ritual good, you pay the card of that craftsman, which then gets given to the owner at the income phase.. so you will generally want to pay yourself(use your own crafters), correct?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mfl134
United States
Havertown
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
My words literally betray me.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Joshuaaaaaa wrote:
No, every craftsman must have exclusive access to at least 1 resource. They can overlap other than that.


Not true.

Different craftsman (primary and secondary) may both need the same resource.


Also assuming the same type of craftsman.

Craftsman 1 uses resource A.

Craftsman 2 uses resource A and resource B.

(Note, craftsman 1 does not have exclusive access.)
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nate S
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
shadow9d9 wrote:
so you will generally want to pay yourself(use your own crafters), correct?

All other things being equal, sure. Though sometimes it might be more important to deplete a particular resource on the board (paying someone else's craftsman) than to pay yourself. Or someone else's craftsman may be cheaper than yours. Etc.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
UA Darth
United States
Boca Raton
FL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ghorsche wrote:
shadow9d9 wrote:
so you will generally want to pay yourself(use your own crafters), correct?

All other things being equal, sure. Though sometimes it might be more important to deplete a particular resource on the board (paying someone else's craftsman) than to pay yourself. Or someone else's craftsman may be cheaper than yours. Etc.


True, but even if cheaper, if you use your own, you get all of it back... but I get what you are saying.. I used my opponent's good once because it cost 1 while mine cost 3 and he ended up using it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Or you might use their craftsman so that they use your craftsman and they need a hub where you didn't.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Gottesman
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mfl134 wrote:
Joshuaaaaaa wrote:
No, every craftsman must have exclusive access to at least 1 resource. They can overlap other than that.


Not true.

Different craftsman (primary and secondary) may both need the same resource.


Also assuming the same type of craftsman.

Craftsman 1 uses resource A.

Craftsman 2 uses resource A and resource B.

(Note, craftsman 1 does not have exclusive access.)


At the time it is placed, a primary craftsman must have exclusive access to a resource. My original post was not clear on that.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Nelson
United States
Draper
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Joshuaaaaaa wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
Joshuaaaaaa wrote:
No, every craftsman must have exclusive access to at least 1 resource. They can overlap other than that.


Not true.

Different craftsman (primary and secondary) may both need the same resource.


Also assuming the same type of craftsman.

Craftsman 1 uses resource A.

Craftsman 2 uses resource A and resource B.

(Note, craftsman 1 does not have exclusive access.)


At the time it is placed, a primary craftsman must have exclusive access to a resource. My original post was not clear on that.



Also, the secondary must have exclusive access to a resource from all other secondary craftsman of the same type, but can link to any needed primary craftsman they can reach by hub or not.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Gottesman
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Are you certain on that last point? I don't have the rules handy, and if that's correct, I don't know if we've been playing correctly. We haven't been enforcing exclusivity on the secondaries. That could definitely change things.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chakroun Karim
France
Besancon
Franche-Comté
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
Joshuaaaaaa wrote:
Are you certain on that last point? I don't have the rules handy, and if that's correct, I don't know if we've been playing correctly. We haven't been enforcing exclusivity on the secondaries. That could definitely change things.


basically, *any* craftsman must have access to at least one resource that is not accessible to another craftsman of the same type.

the Rules, p.5 , Available Input Resources wrote:
...A craftsman may only be placed if he can reach at least one resource of the required type which is not yet in range of another craftsman of the same type. ...


the Rules, p.5 , Building secondary craftsmen wrote:
...Secondary craftsmen may only be built if they can reach at least one primary craftsman of the required type (potter for vessel maker; wood carver for sculptor; ivory carver for throne maker). They can reach the primary craftsman if it is either in range 3,or if it is in range of a hub that is in range.You do not have to pay for using hubs when building a craftsman. All other restrictions to placing a craftsman still apply. ...


4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clyde W
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Red Team
badge
#YOLO
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Right so a first-level and secondary craftsman COULD, legally have access to the same basic resource, but this isn't good for business unless they have access to other basics.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Gottesman
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wow...I'm sure we've been misplaying that. We've just been using the requirement that they reach a primary craftsman. Thanks for pointing it out!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nate S
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Joshuaaaaaa wrote:
Wow...I'm sure we've been misplaying that. We've just been using the requirement that they reach a primary craftsman. Thanks for pointing it out!

I'm guessing you had realized that secondary craftsmen also consume a resource? e.g. it takes a total of two different clay resources to make a vessel.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
gehazi mann
msg tools
clydeiii wrote:
Right so a first-level and secondary craftsman COULD, legally have access to the same basic resource, but this isn't good for business unless the have access to other basics.


Definitely, the rules are explicit on this point.

In our first game, my wife calmly slapped down a Sculptor right next to her Mask-maker, each having only access to the same Wood resource. Huh? Won't neither be usable, I wonder...and remember she had taken Atete as her god of choice and could use the same resource twice. She had made it impossible for anyone but her to ever use the sculptor.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Gottesman
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ghorsche wrote:
Joshuaaaaaa wrote:
Wow...I'm sure we've been misplaying that. We've just been using the requirement that they reach a primary craftsman. Thanks for pointing it out!

I'm guessing you had realized that secondary craftsmen also consume a resource? e.g. it takes a total of two different clay resources to make a vessel.


I think we screwed this up in 1 game (either my 1st or 2nd) and didn't realize it because nobody built a throne maker which used 2 different resources. Since then its been a non-issue.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ricky Gray
United States
Powder Springs
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
In our first game, my wife calmly slapped down a Sculptor right next to her Mask-maker, each having only access to the same Wood resource.


Hmmm. Not sure that your wife's play was legal here. The Sculptor and the Mask Maker can legally share resources, but they also each have to have access to an appropriate resource that is exclusive to them.

Ricky
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ricky Gray
United States
Powder Springs
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
nobody built a throne maker which used 2 different resources


Via his connection to an Ivory Carver he uses two different resources (correct?). The TM uses a wood, and also must connect to an IC which uses an ivory.

Ricky
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Preacher wrote:
Hmmm. Not sure that your wife's play was legal here. The Sculptor and the Mask Maker can legally share resources, but they also each have to have access to an appropriate resource that is exclusive to them.


Wrong. That's not what the rules say.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
gehazi mann
msg tools
Only exclusive per craftsman type.

I would have screamed bloody murder if not. It was a beautiful and crushing move that delighted me in it what it revealed about the game even as I saw all hope of winning drift away.

The rules are extremely specific on this point:

rules, page 6, 1st col, 2 para wrote:
It is allowed to build a secondary craftsman such that he uses the
same resource as the primary craftsman he depends on. In some
circumstances, this may mean that it is impossible to use either of the
craftsmen for upgrading a monument.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gehazi wrote:
In our first game, my wife calmly slapped down a Sculptor right next to her Mask-maker, each having only access to the same Wood resource. Huh? Won't neither be usable, I wonder...and remember she had taken Atete as her god of choice and could use the same resource twice. She had made it impossible for anyone but her to ever use the sculptor.


Well, not impossible. Eshu could allow it. Or the Shaman could add resources. Or the Rain Ceremony could create access to new resources. Or someone could build another Wood carver near a different Wood resource and then use that other Wood carver with her Sculptor. That's all the ways I can think of.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.