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Spartacus: A Game of Blood & Treachery» Forums » Rules

Subject: Starting the Game with Upkeep "balance the ledgers" rss

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Colonel Hessler
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We have this argument everytime we play, depending on who/what Ludus you get at the start.

I have not got the Game in front of me so please bare that in mind if the figures are incorrect.

If for instance I play Batiatus. He gets 10 gold, 3 gladiators and 1 slave at the start

Do you actually do Upkeep ie balance the ledgers on the first round?

We have been playing as you dont. As we cant understand that Batiatus for instance loses 2 gold before any game play has taken place.

We can't see anywhere in the rules that states that balancing the ledgers in the first turn is missed.

Any ideas or views?
 
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Carsten Jorgensen
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You do start with upkeep. It has been answered by the publisher in another thread.

Edit: This one at the end.
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Al Villeneuve
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Keep in mind Batiatus' special ability. The player COULD flip over two of their gladiators in the intrigue phase to get 2 gold. This essentially makes them break even.
 
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Syn Egg
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On a slightly related note, my group is trialing letting Batiatus use his exhibition match ability before balancing ledgers. It's just too much of a disadvantage when you accidentally go broke and then have to discard your gladiators at the start of next turn.

I mean the guy's already poor to start with, he has 10 gold in the first turn compared with someone else with 12 (I think?), plus he has to save 2 gold for the start of the next turn, so effectively he has 8 gold to spend in the market phase. Good luck buying anything.
 
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Scott Egan
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Synegg wrote:
On a slightly related note, my group is trialing letting Batiatus use his exhibition match ability before balancing ledgers. It's just too much of a disadvantage when you accidentally go broke and then have to discard your gladiators at the start of next turn.

I mean the guy's already poor to start with, he has 10 gold in the first turn compared with someone else with 12 (I think?), plus he has to save 2 gold for the start of the next turn, so effectively he has 8 gold to spend in the market phase. Good luck buying anything.


Are you skipping the intrigued phase? Why would he only have eight gold?
 
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Syn Egg
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Thanks for reminding me, it's a relative difference since everyone can sell cards in the intrigue phase. But Batiatus is actually on an even bigger deficit afterwards.

Glaber can draw an extra card so he will have more gold.

Tullius can reshuffle unwanted/low value cards but this is situational and chance based.

Solonius' ability is also kind of variable, it might let you play some powerful intrigue cards by yourself to earn a ton of gold. If he gets Ashur early he becomes a monster in the intrigue phase.
 
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Carsten Jorgensen
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Synegg wrote:
Thanks for reminding me, it's a relative difference since everyone can sell cards in the intrigue phase. But Batiatus is actually on an even bigger deficit afterwards.


I suspect he was thinking about Batiatus' House Special giving two gold for exhausting two gladiators. So back at 10 gold - not that big a difference with others, though still behind as you mention. It is probably intentional to simulate their money problems in the series.
 
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Scott Egan
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Randor20 wrote:
Synegg wrote:
Thanks for reminding me, it's a relative difference since everyone can sell cards in the intrigue phase. But Batiatus is actually on an even bigger deficit afterwards.


I suspect he was thinking about Batiatus' House Special giving two gold for exhausting two gladiators. So back at 10 gold - not that big a difference with others, though still behind as you mention. It is probably intentional to simulate their money problems in the series.


I'm not claiming that he's a better house, but he isn't that far behind early game over others.

I think his focus is slightly overvalued by the designer/undervalued by players, in regards to having the easiest time satisfying the many influence granting intrigue cards requiring large amounts of gladiators.

I think Glaber and Tulius are better but he has his upsides. Focusing on Gladiators is the cleanest way to victory. You don't have to screw over everyone, you are protected from Shamful Ludus (usually), you get all those Public Execution cards, and influence gained in the arena phase is the safest overall.

I think him in better straights the Solonius who's ability can range from useless (no good cards) to expensive (good non-money gaining cards) to good. And his discard ability is hardest to apply.

If I had my pick it be Tulius all day.
 
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Joe Bowers
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[/q]
Are you skipping the intrigued phase? Why would he only have eight gold?[/q]

Because you need to save 2 gold for next turn.
 
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Scott Egan
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Topdecker577 wrote:

Are you skipping the intrigued phase? Why would he only have eight gold?[/q]

Because you need to save 2 gold for next turn.[/q]

Again irrelevant. Just because you need gold for next turn does not mean you only have 8 to spend when you, and everyone, are perfectly capable of selling cards, playing cards, etc.
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Dangerous Partners
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Yes - he's taking a few narrow view of it. He starts with three gladiators and only one can fight (assuming you even get invited) so you can automatically exhaust two of them for four gold, and then you can gamble on a better gladiator coming up in the market and being able to buy him so can exhaust the third gladiator ... so six gold and yet to play an intrigue card.

And you can't accidentally end up with not enough money at upkeep - you either plan it (for whatever reason where you need the gold urgently) or you have gambled on it (literally with none of your bets winning) ... or you were just stupid - but nothing accidental with any of them.
 
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Carsten Jorgensen
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BeerAndBoard wrote:
Yes - he's taking a few narrow view of it. He starts with three gladiators and only one can fight (assuming you even get invited) so you can automatically exhaust two of them for four gold, and then you can gamble on a better gladiator coming up in the market and being able to buy him so can exhaust the third gladiator ... so six gold and yet to play an intrigue card.

And you can't accidentally end up with not enough money at upkeep - you either plan it (for whatever reason where you need the gold urgently) or you have gambled on it (literally with none of your bets winning) ... or you were just stupid - but nothing accidental with any of them.


The bold part. You get two gold for exhausting two gladiators - not four gold.

I have only played once, but I think they can be quite good, if you are playing the longer games, were you have time to get many gladiators. Simply because of the many scheme cards giving you influence for 3, 5 or 7(right?) gladiators. Getting five gladiators is really hard if you start with just one (as I did and got lots of these cards ) - and the ability to actually maintain them for free is really good combined with this. If you get any of these cards, of course, but there are quite a few of them, I think .
 
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Dangerous Partners
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Didn't have the rules in front of me - same point, you get gold for them.

It's a simple game - actually we think it may be a bit too simple to keep our interest - so people don't overthink it too much.
 
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