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Subject: Official 5 Player Variant, Designer Approved rss

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Please note, that I am simply copying and editing a post made by the designer regarding his rules for a 5-Player variant.

I felt that I got lucky in spotting this and figured it deserved it's own thread, so future BGGers could spot it easily. I will include Steve's commentary on 5 players after the rules.

******************************************************

Official 5-Player Variant as posted by Steve Finn:

SETUP

1 Give each player the following Gold cards: 1, 1, 2, 2, and 3.
2 Discard 2 random cards from the deck.

The deck now has 60 cards, enough for each player to have 2 turns as the active player.

ADDITIONAL RULES

1
Obtain 5 additional dice, i.e. white with black pips. Place one die next to each colored die in the category spaces. Set these dice to 1 at the start of the game.

These new dice will award points to the player who achieves 2nd place in each category.

2
Whenever a player uses the power of a Church card, they get an additional ability to change a white die in the same manner.

This new power is in addition to the Church card's stated power. This additional power does not need to be used; it is up to the player. Of course, a player may choose not to use a Church card at all, per the normal rules.

Just like the original Church cards, the player may choose to alter the white dice in whatever category they see fit. For example, if a player were to play the Church card with 2 +1 dice, the player will change two different color dice as normal, and then may alter two different white dice in any category they wish.

Finally, players may alter colored or white dice in any order they wish.

3
Players may not turn the white dice to a value higher than the associated colored die. Likewise, players may not turn a color die lower than the associated white die.

Remember, players may alter the colored or white dice in any order they wish.

4
The player who achieves 2nd place in each category wins the number of points shown on the white die. If the white die is at the same value as the associated colored die, then the value of the white die must be lowered by 1, but the white die cannot go below 1 point.

******************************************************************

Steve Finns comments regarding the absence of 5 players in the base game:

Quote:
There were two primary reasons: with 5 players and the current number of cards, some players would get more turns as active players than others and this would not be fair in the game. I thought 5 players would need more cards. There is the second reason: when I first made the game, I personally manufactured it and I wanted to limit the cards for both cost and labor purposes. I did not know it would end up being picked up by a publisher later and, for practical reasons, I wanted to limit components. I know this sounds lame, but I wanted to make sure the game fit into a VHS box too because I wanted to make more portable games at that time.

I've been working on an expansion that would also turn it into a 5 player game. It presently includes a middle stage that involves drawing special power cards. However, it is in preliminary stages and I have no idea if it will be made.


Finally, while I have edited these rules heavily, I haven't added anything except to add clarification.

Enjoy!
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Stephen Sanders
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Neat. I might try this some time. Thanks.
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Jonathan Harrison
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Thank you! You're right, I would never have seen this otherwise. Kudos.
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Steve Finn
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Thanks. I will also add one more clarifying rule: the player may change the white die first (e.g., to allow for the lowering of a colored die after).

Please let me know what you think if you try it. I have not play tested it too much since, at this point, I actually get bored playing my own games.
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drfinn wrote:
Thanks. I will also add one more clarifying rule: the player may change the white die first (e.g., to allow for the lowering of a colored die after).

Please let me know what you think if you try it. I have not play tested it too much since, at this point, I actually get bored playing my own games.


I've added this clarification into the rules. Thank you!

And I definitely intend to try this variant out! The ability to add a 5th player adds a lot of flexibility. Of course, I just purchased Scripts and Scribes: The Dice Game which plays up to 5 people, and is a terrific game! So it might be a while before I get a chance to try this variant.
 
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Paulo Santoro
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This variant seems very interesting, clever and ingenious - like the game itself.

However I'm really not willing to try it out. With 4 players it's already hard.
 
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Raimund Bubelis
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Makes a great game even better.
 
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Filip Cam
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Would this also work as a fun alternative for the 4 player game?
 
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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krommenaas wrote:
Would this also work as a fun alternative for the 4 player game?


Would love to hear from anyone that tries it with 4.

A number of posts here have talked about how the game gets too chaotic and suffers from the loss of control significantly when you go from 3 to 4 players.

If this addresses that, I'll be sure to keep the variant rules printed and in the box for when a 4th will be joining.
 
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Quote:
Would love to hear from anyone that tries it with 4.


I can't think of any reason, off hand, why this wouldn't work for 4.

Scripts and Scribes: The Dice Game has the 2nd place mechanism in it at all times, and honestly, I wonder if it's not the better game.
 
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Bob Duclos
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Misterboy wrote:
I wonder if it's not the better game.


I feel exactly the opposite of you. Not having hidden information makes this game fall flat for my group.

In fact, I am going to steal the pip dice from S&S to use for secondary dice for the 5-player variant.


Thanks for posting this, btw.
 
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Paulo Santoro
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As I've said, I'm not willing to play with five, however it would be great if this work well with 3 or 4 players. Just adding the 5 white dice. I will try!
 
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Jackson Chan
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I would buy an official expansion for this game if it added a fifth or even a sixth player... assuming it would be balanced with more suits and/or cards and/or dice.
 
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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PauloSantoro wrote:
With 4 players it's already hard.


Would you mind expanding on what you mean when you say "it's already hard" Paulo?

With 94% of the player count poll recommending it with that number I'm curious as to what you find hard about it?
 
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Neil Christiansen
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We have played with the additional white dice with both 4 and 5 players. Works well. I prefer 4 players.

We did not like how many money cards got removed and given at start. We reduced that by quite a bit.
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