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Subject: Hamas has already violated its so-called "cease-fire". rss

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Moshe Callen
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http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/two-rockets-at...

As usual, cease-fires with Hamas mean only Israel stops firing.
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I'm sorry world, that we've become your laughing-stock.
I'm sorry, that even when you've placed your trust in us, and told us "Go on, do the right thing" we just couldn't.
I'm really sorry.
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Blue Mountain
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Could it have been a rogue idiot or two.... and not "Hamas"?
 
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BlueMountain wrote:
Could it have been a rogue idiot or two.... and not "Hamas"?


Could be, but that makes it okay...how exactly?
I agree that we must not be hasty and jump to conclusions, but that's exactly why Israel does not retaliate.
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Murka wrote:
BlueMountain wrote:
Could it have been a rogue idiot or two.... and not "Hamas"?


Could be, but that makes it okay...how exactly?
I agree that we must not be hasty and jump to conclusions, but that's exactly why Israel does not retaliate.
Did somebody say it was ok?

It may be hamas, may be an angry idiot or even agents provocateurs working for whoever.

It'll all come out in the wash ... maybe

 
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jimbrax wrote:
That's weird, the BBC, that international bastion of truth and impartiality, says the ceasefire is holding:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20439967

whistle


I'm sure they do; they always do.
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jimbrax wrote:
the BBC, that international bastion of truth and impartiality

You must be joking
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Boaty McBoatface
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whac3 wrote:
jimbrax wrote:
That's weird, the BBC, that international bastion of truth and impartiality, says the ceasefire is holding:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20439967

:whistle:


I'm sure they do; they always do.
So is everyone else apart from one organization that provides zero detail,and reads like some one expressing an opinion alone.

 
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slatersteven wrote:
After a bit of digging (looking at the other stories in the OP's link).


November 22, 2012 10:18 AM: Two Rockets fired at Ashkelon Beach (assuming this is not a repeat of a story five days old).

November 22, 2012 10:58 PM: cease before come into effect, so Hamas had already breached the case fire...before it had started?

fact the latest story (from the OP's source) is this http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/analysis/with-quiet-at-th..., so even this 'impeccable' source says the cease fire is holding. So much for the BBC's inaccuracy.


Yeah but those are BRITISH Jews. We've already been over how their opinion doesn't count.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Fwing wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
After a bit of digging (looking at the other stories in the OP's link).


November 22, 2012 10:18 AM: Two Rockets fired at Ashkelon Beach (assuming this is not a repeat of a story five days old).

November 22, 2012 10:58 PM: cease before come into effect, so Hamas had already breached the case fire...before it had started?

fact the latest story (from the OP's source) is this http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/analysis/with-quiet-at-th..., so even this 'impeccable' source says the cease fire is holding. So much for the BBC's inaccuracy.


Yeah but those are BRITISH Jews. We've already been over how their opinion doesn't count.
I deleted my post as the ceasefire was yesterday, but this (Update: The Jewish Press just reported, at 10:15 AM Thursday, that a rocket fired at Regional Council Ashkelon Coast exploded over Arab territory) make interesting reading. How did it occur over Arab territory, and was it in fact a Hamas rocket.
 
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slatersteven wrote:
So is everyone else apart from one organization that provides zero detail,and reads like some one expressing an opinion alone.
From BBC and jimbrax's link:

Quote:
The Israeli military said three rockets had been fired from Gaza since the ceasefire came into effect, two of which were shot down by the Iron Dome defence system. It said there had been no fire in either direction since midnight.


The website claims it was last edited at 2:34AM, it is now 6:57 and jim's comment was at 4:26. The thread was opened at 3:37. Either something is wrong with all the clocks, or it was publicly announced that the cease fire was "broken" and Moshe is correct. I'm going to go with Moshe being correct.

Edit: it looks like BGG clocks are set for an hour off of Eastern time, which still puts the BBC edit at 3:34 with relation to all the post timers.
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mtagge wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
So is everyone else apart from one organization that provides zero detail,and reads like some one expressing an opinion alone.
From BBC and jimbrax's link:

Quote:
The Israeli military said three rockets had been fired from Gaza since the ceasefire came into effect, two of which were shot down by the Iron Dome defence system. It said there had been no fire in either direction since midnight.


The website claims it was last edited at 2:34AM, it is now 6:57 and jim's comment was at 4:26. The thread was opened at 3:37. Either something is wrong with all the clocks, or it was publicly announced that the cease fire was "broken" and Moshe is correct. I'm going to go with Moshe being correct.

Edit: it looks like BGG clocks are set for an hour off of Eastern time, which still puts the BBC edit at 3:34 with relation to all the post timers.
So the BBC did report it.
 
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gamecat_uk wrote:


1)UN Plan->1967 are right technically, but the question is, WHY they lost that land at 1967?

2) The 1946 and 2010 ones are outright lies.

Also, coming here and just throwing out a picture...is there a point to this?
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Murka wrote:
gamecat_uk wrote:


1)UN Plan->1967 are right technically, but the question is, WHY they lost that land at 1967?

2) The 1946 and 2010 ones are outright lies.

Also, coming here and just throwing out a picture...is there a point to this?


Just putting things in perspective.
 
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whac3 wrote:
http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/two-rockets-at...

As usual, cease-fires with Hamas mean only Israel stops firing.


Maybe those rockets were the gun salute for winning the war. Yes, IMHO Hamas has won the war politically and there is not much Israel can do about it. Vae victis.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2011/sep/14/map-...
 
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gamecat_uk wrote:


1) 1947 - "War broke out" ... hmm... yeah...
2) 1949 - Armistice agreements
3) We jump straight to 1967 when Israel "Wrestled" the territories from those poor poor Palestinians, while undoubtably killing maiming and raping all in their way (And taking virgin blood for passover matzot, don't forget!) without mentioning all the conflicts and agression towards Israel in the years inbetween. 1956 war anyone?
4) 1993, Oslo Accords, Settlements are mentioned. I have to mention that although the original idea of the settlements was to secure peace by providing territorial control by proxy of army support, it has become a cheap way to try and landgrab. and I'm against it however, Israel has already proven before, when we went out of Gaza that we ARE capable of giving up on land. They, I remind you, haven't shown so far that they are capable of giving up on murdering Israelis.
5) 2000 - Border wall, I really don't see the fuss over that, has anyone seen the US-Mexican border? What is the difference? About the settlements, see my comment above, I'm not supporting that, but I have to mention again that those settlements CAN be abandoned later on.
6) Blah blah blah settlements are BAD...we got it okay.

During all this pretty pretty presentation, I have to say that I haven't seen ONE good thing mentioned as done by Israel, such as supply of water and electricity and supplies to the Palestinians, or the fact that we disbanded the settlements of Gaza strip and left it alone, there's not one soldier or citizen of Israel present in the strip right now.

Just open your eyes for a bit, I'm not saying they don't suffer at all, but try seeing both sides.
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Murka wrote:
gamecat_uk wrote:


1) 1947 - "War broke out" ... hmm... yeah...
2) 1949 - Armistice agreements
3) We jump straight to 1967 when Israel "Wrestled" the territories from those poor poor Palestinians, while undoubtably killing maiming and raping all in their way (And taking virgin blood for passover matzot, don't forget!) without mentioning all the conflicts and agression towards Israel in the years inbetween. 1956 war anyone?
4) 1993, Oslo Accords, Settlements are mentioned. I have to mention that although the original idea of the settlements was to secure peace by providing territorial control by proxy of army support, it has become a cheap way to try and landgrab. and I'm against it however, Israel has already proven before, when we went out of Gaza that we ARE capable of giving up on land. They, I remind you, haven't shown so far that they are capable of giving up on murdering Israelis.
5) 2000 - Border wall, I really don't see the fuss over that, has anyone seen the US-Mexican border? What is the difference? About the settlements, see my comment above, I'm not supporting that, but I have to mention again that those settlements CAN be abandoned later on.
6) Blah blah blah settlements are BAD...we got it okay.

During all this pretty pretty presentation, I have to say that I haven't seen ONE good thing mentioned as done by Israel, such as supply of water and electricity and supplies to the Palestinians, or the fact that we disbanded the settlements of Gaza strip and left it alone, there's not one soldier or citizen of Israel present in the strip right now.

Just open your eyes for a bit, I'm not saying they don't suffer at all, but try seeing both sides.


Sorry but just because you agree to disband some settlements in land that is not yours does not mean that taking other land away is not wrong.

As to giving up on murdering Israelites, sorry but if you are saying that all you have to do is give up a little (rather then all) then I would say that not all Palestinians are killing Israelis. So yes they have shown that they can stop killing Israelis.

he 1956 was was started by Israel, and was a pure land grab. And again after 1948 the Palestinians had lost land that was annexed by Israel.
 
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It's disputed land actually by international law. Indeed I personally think the Israeli claim to it stronger. We have repeatedly offered agreements about the land which entails us not building is certain regions. Those agreements are staunchly rejected by the "Palestinian" leadership. Why then should we not pursue our claim to the land?
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whac3 wrote:
It's disputed land actually by international law. Indeed I personally think the Israeli claim to it stronger. We have repeatedly offered agreements about the land which entails us not building is certain regions. Those agreements are staunchly rejected by the "Palestinian" leadership. Why then should we not pursue our claim to the land?
It was granted to the Palestinians as part of the agreement that crated Israel.
 
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slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
It's disputed land actually by international law. Indeed I personally think the Israeli claim to it stronger. We have repeatedly offered agreements about the land which entails us not building is certain regions. Those agreements are staunchly rejected by the "Palestinian" leadership. Why then should we not pursue our claim to the land?
It was granted to the Palestinians as part of the agreement that crated Israel.

No, Jordan was reated as an Arab State. Arabs and Jews created Israel and the "Palestinians" rejected a multi-ethnic secular state in the region. They are hardly representative of all Arabs here.
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whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
It's disputed land actually by international law. Indeed I personally think the Israeli claim to it stronger. We have repeatedly offered agreements about the land which entails us not building is certain regions. Those agreements are staunchly rejected by the "Palestinian" leadership. Why then should we not pursue our claim to the land?
It was granted to the Palestinians as part of the agreement that crated Israel.

No, Jordan was reated as an Arab State. Arabs and Jews created Israel and the "Palestinians" rejected a multi-ethnic secular state in the region. They are hardly representative of all Arabs here.
The partition allowed for the creation of a Palestinian state, it granted them 45 percent of the land, much of which was unfit for agriculture. Jaffa, though geographically separated, was to be part of the Arab state (despite making up 60 odd percent of the population).
 
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slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
It's disputed land actually by international law. Indeed I personally think the Israeli claim to it stronger. We have repeatedly offered agreements about the land which entails us not building is certain regions. Those agreements are staunchly rejected by the "Palestinian" leadership. Why then should we not pursue our claim to the land?
It was granted to the Palestinians as part of the agreement that crated Israel.

No, Jordan was reated as an Arab State. Arabs and Jews created Israel and the "Palestinians" rejected a multi-ethnic secular state in the region. They are hardly representative of all Arabs here.
The partition allowed for the creation of a Palestinian state, it granted them 45 percent of the land, much of which was unfit for agriculture. Jaffa, though geographically separated, was to be part of the Arab state (despite making up 60 odd percent of the population).

A partition plan which they rejected, choosing war instead. They lost.
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whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
It's disputed land actually by international law. Indeed I personally think the Israeli claim to it stronger. We have repeatedly offered agreements about the land which entails us not building is certain regions. Those agreements are staunchly rejected by the "Palestinian" leadership. Why then should we not pursue our claim to the land?
It was granted to the Palestinians as part of the agreement that crated Israel.

No, Jordan was reated as an Arab State. Arabs and Jews created Israel and the "Palestinians" rejected a multi-ethnic secular state in the region. They are hardly representative of all Arabs here.
The partition allowed for the creation of a Palestinian state, it granted them 45 percent of the land, much of which was unfit for agriculture. Jaffa, though geographically separated, was to be part of the Arab state (despite making up 60 odd percent of the population).

A partition plan which they rejected, choosing war instead. They lost.
Sorry that does not abrogate their rights. If Israel wants peace it must abide by the terms of UN General Assembly Resolution 181 (at the very minimum. If you are not willing to do so you will never have peace. Might does not (and never has) made right.

If the Zionists had accepted the reality on the ground in 1946 (instead of resorting to terrorism) there would be no state of Israel. A state born of terrorism can hardly complain about others resorting to it to fight fr a homeland (where their forefathers came from) as well.
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