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Battles of Westeros» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question - Keyword: Defender rss

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Scott Randolph
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When a unit with the Keyword: Defender, in a situation where the unit does have a Defend token placed in its hex; may that unit wait to see the combat die roll results of an attack against it before deciding to discard its Defend token to counterattack simultaneously?

I know it may seem obvious to some of you, but I know this question will come up, so I want to be sure.
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J C
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I think it's a really good question, with no clear answer in any rulebook. Fair play incline me to think that defending player should declare this simultaneous counterattack before attacker rolls the dice.

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Scott Randolph
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KelemvorBGG wrote:
I think it's a really good question, with no clear answer in any rulebook. Fair play incline me to think that defending player should declare this simultaneous counterattack before attacker rolls the dice.



JC - thanks, I would tend to agree with you, but I am interested to see how Argwinkle, KenToad, North_Wolf and Lannist4Live respond, if they do.
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Jan Dreske
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They do :-)
At the moment, i have no comfortable access to rules material, smartphones are kind of fiddly. But it ever seemed clear to me that the token has to be discarded before the attack roll in order to counter attack _simultaniously_. (man, that word is hard to spell for a german guy)

Somewhere was a note that the unit with a defender token loses heavy armor for the attack, too, when discarding the token.
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J C
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lannister4live wrote:
[...]
Somewhere was a note that the unit with a defender token loses heavy armor for the attack, too, when discarding the token.


Yes, in last version of FAQ / Errata document:
"Q. When discarding a defend token to counterattack at the same time the defending unit is attacked, does the defending unit still retain the keywords Stalwart and Heavy Armor provided by the token?
A. No."

By the way, it was released on january 27, 2011. I think a new version would be nice.
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Christoph Breitkopf
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Interesting question. My gut feeling was that I have to declare the simultaneous counterattack and remove the token before the attacker rolls the dice.

In the rules, however the attack sequence goes

...
6. Roll Attack Dice
7. Resolve Attack
...

and the Defend Token rule is "resolve its counterattack at the same time..."

On the other hand, the word "resolve" is quite clearly also used in the rules to refer to the complete attack sequence, not only step 7. A good example is page 18, "Combat Sequence", where the sentence below the steps, "After resolving one unit’s attack, the active player then selects another unit’s attack to be resolved." obviously refers to the whole sequence.

We have to ask Rob, but at the moment I would continue to have the defender announce the simultaneous counterattack before the attacker rolls his dice.
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Jan Dreske
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Waiting would not only allow the player to check whether his unit would survive, but also see whether he takes more hits with or without heavy armor. Anyhow, i just wrote Rob with this question, i'll share as soon as i get the answer.
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Scott Randolph
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lannister4live wrote:
Waiting would not only allow the player to check whether his unit would survive, but also see whether he takes more hits with or without heavy armor. Anyhow, i just wrote Rob with this question, i'll share as soon as i get the answer.


Right, you "read my mind" (or at least the mind of the people I play against), this is exactly why I was asking because I know that someone will want to do this, and I will have to somehow prove to them that they can't.
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Jan Dreske
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Just got an answer from the Designer:

Rob Kouba wrote:
Greetings,

Before the attacker rolls his attack dice since Defender dice are to be literally rolled at the same time (if possible), not just resolved simultaneously.

Thanks

FFG
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Scott Randolph
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thanks, that's what I figured, but I'm glad to have "proof" in case of argument
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