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Subject: rules for placing harbor tokens "with reverse side up" rss

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mike m
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Just got Seafarers, and not sure what this means in the first scenario:

Quote:
For the 4-player harbors, place the harbor tokens from the stack that has been shuffled with reverse sides up.


I initially read this as "with reverse side up" refers to "place the harbor tokens", meaning the harbor tokens are put on the board with their reverse side up, as is shown in the picture. But what are the characteristics of the harbors in that case?

Later, I realized "with reverse side up" could refer to "shuffled", so in this case it would just mean place the harbors randomly at the designated positions. This makes more sense, but the language is awkward, and differs from the more clear description about options for randomly placing terrain and number tokens.

Can anyone confirm the intent?

Thanks,
Mike
 
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James Newton
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SirWashington wrote:
Just got Seafarers, and not sure what this means in the first scenario:

Quote:
For the 4-player harbors, place the harbor tokens from the stack that has been shuffled with reverse sides up.


I initially read this as "with reverse side up" refers to "place the harbor tokens", meaning the harbor tokens are put on the board with their reverse side up, as is shown in the picture. But what are the characteristics of the harbors in that case?

Later, I realized "with reverse side up" could refer to "shuffled", so in this case it would just mean place the harbors randomly at the designated positions. This makes more sense, but the language is awkward, and differs from the more clear description about options for randomly placing terrain and number tokens.

Can anyone confirm the intent?

Thanks,
Mike

We have always placed them face-up, and I would say that this is correct for three reasons.

Firstly that is how they are shown in the scenario set-up illustrations (the harbour tokens that come with Seafarers have blue "sea" backgrounds, so the illustration definitely shows them face-up).

Secondly, the rest of the scenario makes no reference to doing anything with them at any other time - so placing them face-down would be meaningless.

Thirdly, looking at the copy of the rules that is found online at www.catan.com, the wording has additional brackets, not found in my printed copy (which matches your original quote). This clearly places the reversing as part of the shuffling (in any case, I would say that either the word order should be changed, or at least a comma needed, if the reversing was meant to apply to the placing rather than the shuffling).
Seafarers rules (online), Scenario 1 wrote:
Finally place the harbor tokens (from the stack that has been shuffled with reverse sides up).
 
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mike m
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thanks. Your wording with the parenthesis seems clearer, and obviously putting them face-up makes more sense intuitively. What kind of added to my confusion was the illustration with the 4-person setup for scenario 1 actually shows them reverse side up.

In any case, i'll treat them as random face-up harbors.

Thanks again!
 
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