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Subject: Do the 3 Starter Kits add up to the complete 3 Ring Binder contents? rss

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Dan Fielding
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And does the 2nd ed binder still contain the graphic images inside the covers, like the AH version? That would be the only reason to get the empty binder.
 
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Paul Franklin-Bihary
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The SK rules still don't contain all the rules in full ASL. Yes, the binder does have the counters listed inside. But the rules are still not complete.
 
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The Full ASL Rulebook contains the following chapters:

Chapter A: Infantry and Basic Game Rules
Chapter B: Terrain
Chapter C: Ordnance and Offboard Artillery
Chapter D: Vehicles
Chapter E: Miscellaneous

Basically, SK#1 presents a simplified version of chapter A, SK#2 is a simplified chapter C, and SK#3 is a simplified chapter D, and all three have rules on terrain, obviously, but there are far more terrain types in full ASL.
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Mattias Elfström
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Rindu wrote:
The Full ASL Rulebook contains the following chapters:

Chapter A: Infantry and Basic Game Rules
Chapter B: Terrain
Chapter C: Ordnance and Offboard Artillery
Chapter D: Vehicles
Chapter E: Miscellaneous

Basically, SK#1 presents a simplified version of chapter A, SK#2 is a simplified chapter C, and SK#3 is a simplified chapter D, and all three have rules on terrain, obviously, but there are far more terrain types in full ASL.


And don't forget chapter H! One of the best and most interesting parts of ASL!
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Ruben Rigillo
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And the training Chapter K!
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Klas Malmstrom
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And Chaprer J (Deluxe ASL).
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Pierce Ostrander
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Gronak wrote:
Do the 3 Starter Kits add up to the complete 3 Ring Binder contents?


No - not by a long shot. The Rules for ASLSK are an excellent complete game - and could be played and enjoyed alone as a complete game forever. IMHO - they compare favorable to any other tactical WWII game system in existence.

The difference in the two systems is scope. Full ASL is MASSIVE.

ASLSK is not simpler than Full ASL (neither are difficult); but rather, it's just (a whole lot) smaller.

Full ASL: A Humvee with a warehouse full of gear and attachments.

ASLSK: A Smart Car.

You need to know how to drive to do either, and the details of that are the same. However, the Humvee (+ gear) gives you a lot more options.

Rindu wrote:
Basically, SK#1 presents a simplified version of chapter A, SK#2 is a simplified chapter C, and SK#3 is a simplified chapter D, and all three have rules on terrain, obviously, but there are far more terrain types in full ASL.


This is a nit - but I'd call it a streamlined version of Chapters A, C and D. Nothing is changed or dumb-down. Instead, extra detail is left out.


Examples of detail left out:

Chapter A: concealment, bypass movement, dash movement, Machine Gun Fire Lanes, prisoners;
Chapter B: Building levels, exotic terrain;
Chapter C: Off-board Artillery, towing Guns
Chapter D: crew survival, platoon movement, bypass movement.

Chapter E is essentially a collection of special rules that are only used in certain scenarios when the are specifically called for, and never when they are not. Example: Night, Weather, Air Support, Paratroop and Glider Drops, River Crossing (Boats). Its contents are completely absent from ASLSK.

Other Chapters that are included in subsequent modules (not in the ASL rulebook) add rules for other nationalities and new terrain types (Desert, Jungle, the Japanese etc.).

What this means is that if you graduate to full ASL - you add to what you already know, rather than having to re-learn basics. The scope expands (massively) in two ways:

1 The theaters of war and types of scenario situations you can model,

2 Your options during play: rules are added that let you do stuff that you could do (or that could happen, or that exist) in real life, but for which ASLSK does not have the "software" to model.

As far as I know there is only one difference between full ASL and SKASL and it is an obscure minor thing that is easy to learn "the new way" if you move up to the big game.
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Akiva
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Not sure if your 'new way' is in reference to this but, in my experience, ASLSK matches tend to be far more bloodier due to the fact that the SK limitations brought on by the streamlining tend to favor an attitude of 'might as well go ahead and attack' since certain defensive maneuvers such as Dash make it easier to simply open fire on moving units. When we moved from SK to the RB, I noticed that there was a lot more consideration to holding fire if the odds weren't good enough and so forth.

One other point I'd like to point out is that the SKs feel more like you're just playing a game (a fine game, mind you) and that the RB adds a richer story-like experience to individual matches. Watching the creation of a Hero, for example, offers an evocative and deeper experience and it's the kind of thing you find yourself talking about long after. 'Remember that time...?'

So, for me, it isn't just the addition of rules, it's the fact it brings to the table an essentially new (and surprising, at times) play experience that the SKs simply can't match.
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Dan Fielding
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Given that 2 of the 3 SK modules are out of print...

One could purchase the Binder and play the "streamlined" version IF someone would create a list of the rules sections included in each SK module. Then the owner of the Binder could ignore the appropriate sections.
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Dan Fielding
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Does the original ASL AH version differ from the currently available MMP version?

I understand that AH did a "revised" version or issued some replacement pages ??? SO how does one determine which ASL AH version they have ???

EDIT: I see there is a 2nd edition with first and second printings. Any differences?
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Dan Fielding
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Does the MMP version of Beyond Valor differ from the AH version? I understand at some point MMP was improving the counter art to make it easier to see ???

Black Friday is the day to buy stuff, If I decide to do it...
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Pierce Ostrander
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Gronak wrote:
Does the MMP version of Beyond Valor differ from the AH version? I understand at some point MMP was improving the counter art to make it easier to see ???

Black Friday is the day to buy stuff, If I decide to do it...


Slightly larger images.
 
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Jay Richardson
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Dan Fielding wrote:
One could purchase the Binder and play the "streamlined" version IF someone would create a list of the rules sections included in each SK module. Then the owner of the Binder could ignore the appropriate sections.

Here you go:

From Starter Kits to full ASL. A comprehensive list of rules you need to learn
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/620594/from-starter-kits...

If you were to purchase the full ASL rulebook and ignore most of the rules listed in the above article, that would be a way to gradually learn full ASL. The play balance of ASL scenarios will often be messed up by ignoring some of those rules... but play balance is not an issue when you are learning the game.

However, it would still be easier, and certainly cheaper, to just pick up a copy of ASLSK #3 and use it to learn the ASL basics.
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Spencer Armstrong
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Gronak wrote:
Does the MMP version of Beyond Valor differ from the AH version? I understand at some point MMP was improving the counter art to make it easier to see ???

Black Friday is the day to buy stuff, If I decide to do it...


There have been three editions of BV.

BV1 had four maps and ten scenarios.

BV2 added Red Barricades, so had more counters, Chapter O, the RB scenarios and the RB maps.

BV3 does not have RB, but does have 10 maps (SK style) and 24 scenarios, so it's expanded from BV1. Also, the counters are the "new" style, much cleaner and crisper.

S
 
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Dan Fielding
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Good god...

Is Red Barricades now a separate thing you can buy (& is it in print? MMP site down today...)
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Klas Malmstrom
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Gronak wrote:
Good god...

Is Red Barricades now a separate thing you can buy (& is it in print? MMP site down today...)

No, Red Barricades is out-of-print. I think you might still be able to buy the map from MMP though.
 
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Dan Fielding
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MMP still down... SO what is Red Barricades? I know the maps have larger hexes... are they city with sewers? Any counters included?
 
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Pierce Ostrander
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Gronak wrote:
MMP still down... SO what is Red Barricades? I know the maps have larger hexes... are they city with sewers? Any counters included?


So, are we off topic yet?
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Dan Fielding
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Hell no. The topic is my decision to buy ASL + Valor today at the Black Friday discount... or never.

I'm staring at my original AH SL pile... could go back to playing that, except I'd like to have the rules for say everything except GI:Anvil together in one continuous format.

And another including GI:A. Dunno if GI:A jumped the shark or not.

I was actually doing that a couple decades ago... found a folder where I had copied every rule page, and was cutting & pasting the changes & additions to each rule onto one page...
 
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Jay Richardson
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Dan Fielding wrote:
MMP still down... SO what is Red Barricades?

Red Barricades
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/8611/red-bar...

Dan Fielding wrote:
The topic is my decision to buy ASL + Valor today at the Black Friday discount... or never.

As far as I know, the ASL Rulebook and Beyond Valor were not part of the Black Friday sale.
 
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Dan Fielding
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Not buying from MMP.
 
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Dan Fielding
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Dammit. What are the full titles of the 3 "SK" modules?

Went to the Expansions list on the ASL page and its about 3 screens long...

Alphabetical is no help.

Is there a "branching tree" diagram of the various modules?

If I could remember what SK actually stands for... not Skirmish...

And neither the words "starter kit" nor "SK" appear in the BGG Expansions title list... so do the SKs have unique Module numbers?
 
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Tuukka
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Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1
Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #2
Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #3
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James Lowry
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You couldn't find them because they're not expansions. Each one is a complete package, so they're considered individual games in a series.
 
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Dan Fielding
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But how is one supposed to discover that from the ASL page? Might be good to include this text on the ASL page, so the basic terms used to categorize the items are defined:

ASL Starter Kits contain everything you need to start playing ASL. Each kit adds new dimensions to the game while maximizing playability and fun. They are designed as stand-alone games that can be enjoyed either in sequence or on their own.

Expansion Packs broaden the Starter Kit experience.

The core ASL modules contain the map boards, complete orders of battle for all the major combatants, additional notes and game scenarios. Historical modules add the flavor of a historical map sheet and campaign game to the mix.

Action Packs add additional scenarios and even more map boards. The ASL Journal and Out of the Attic contain articles, tactical tips, scenario replays and still more scenarios.
 
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