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King of Tokyo: Power Up!» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can evolutions be used immediately? rss

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Matthew Lindley
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If I roll 3 hearts and draw an evolution from my deck, can I use it in the same turn? I didn't see anything to say I either could or couldn't.
 
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Stephan Brissaud
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ThatNiceMan wrote:
If I roll 3 hearts and draw an evolution from my deck, can I use it in the same turn? I didn't see anything to say I either could or couldn't.


Yes.
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Matthew Lindley
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Great. Thank you for replying.
 
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Disgustipater
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What about Evolutions that change the results of a die roll? Pandakai rolls 3 hearts and some other stuff. He draws an Evolution and gets the one that allows him to flip all dice to their opposite side. Can he use this immediately to change the result of the dice even though he's already technically used the 3 hearts?
 
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Lee Fisher
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Disgustipater wrote:
What about Evolutions that change the results of a die roll? Pandakai rolls 3 hearts and some other stuff. He draws an Evolution and gets the one that allows him to flip all dice to their opposite side. Can he use this immediately to change the result of the dice even though he's already technically used the 3 hearts?


You wouldn't be able to use it once you are already done rolling and resolving the results.
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Matthew McFarland
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Rolling the dice and resolving the dice happen in two separate phases, so probably not. It doesn't explicity say when to use those evolutions (and base game cards, for that matter) but I think it's implied those powers should be used before resolving dice.

Edit: Beaten to it!
 
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Disgustipater
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Eyefink wrote:
Rolling the dice and resolving the dice happen in two separate phases

Good point. Thanks to both of you.
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Adam R. Wood
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Dr Corey mostly wrote:
However with evolutions they appear during step 2, so they will affect your ability to buy cards (which makes sense), but do they affect other resolutions of the dice in the same phase? EG The King has an evolution card that gives him a victory point for attacking, so does he get that VP during the resolution phase where he gets the card, or only on subsequent turns?


Fixed that for you, so that maybe someone else will realize you were asking a question (and an important one!).

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but the rules for Power Up say the Evolution card is drawn when "a monster ends his rolls", which would imply it actually happens at the end of the first phase, before the dice are otherwise resolved. Since that's the interpretation that most empowers the players, I suspect that's the one most people would use unless a company rep says otherwise. - ZM
 
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Peter Y
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Zotmeister wrote:

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but the rules for Power Up say the Evolution card is drawn when "a monster ends his rolls", which would imply it actually happens at the end of the first phase, before the dice are otherwise resolved. Since that's the interpretation that most empowers the players, I suspect that's the one most people would use unless a company rep says otherwise. - ZM


I think you are reading too much into it. The simplest explanation for including that clarification is because otherwise people might think they could get the evolution if they get the three hearts before the 2nd reroll, and then subsequently re-roll the hearts for something else.

We play that all the dice resolve simultaneously after the rolls are done. Attacks, energy, heals, points, evolutions all happen together with no regard for sequence. Then you move to the buying phase where your new evolution could help you. But it cannot help you on the resolution of your dice, which has already occurred.
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Cheez lt
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Yes they can be used immediately. I'll explain.

Phase 1 of the turn is rolling and re-rolling. Clearly you end your roll before you resolve your dice. Resolving the dice is phase 2. If you are resolving your dice already that means that you are done rolling and re-rolling.

The Power up expansion says you get the evolution card when "a monster ends his roll" like ZM says. So this would clearly be before resolving your dice.

So any evolution that would further effect your turn would be able to be used to resolve your dies. But also, it can not before you are done rolling, because if you roll three hearts on the first roll and plan to re-roll then you are not ending your roll, and you cannot evolve yet.

For instance, in the Halloween expansion you could use a gift evolution on the same turn you rolled at least 3 hearts and one claw.

For Gigazaur you could flip one of yoru dies after rolling three hearts, but you would not be able to heal, and then evolve and then flip the roll (assuming you wanted to change one of the heart dies). During your turn in this case you would roll and re-roll. Finish with three hearts and let's assume two 2's and an energy cube. End your roll. Draw an evolution, assume Tail Sweep. Now you can change a heart to a third 2. Then you would resolve your dice. So in this turn you would end up with two hearts, and three 2's and an energy cube. You would only be able to heal 2 even though you were also able to evolve that turn, before you resolved the dice. Changing a die using Tail Sweep is clearly not a roll but a die manipulation, so one has still ended his roll prior to the evolution, and prior to using the evolution even though the evolution effects the Resolve dice phase.
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Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
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Cheezlt wrote:
Yes they can be used immediately. I'll explain.


Besides causing a time-paradox, your example needlessly complicates a fairly simple game.

Example of a basic turn:
Roll dice
Stuff happens (claws>damage, hearts>heal, purchase cards trigger, etc...)
Buy cards

Example of your proposed turn:
Roll dice
Some stuff might happen
Because stuff might have happened, other stuff may happen
Stuff happens (claws>damage, hearts>...)
Buy cards


For the sake of simplicity, you should get your Evolutions the same time you get everything else, when the dice resolve.
 
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Biodiesel
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The Kraken has an evolution that gives you 1vp for every heart scored. I don't remember exact wording, but can you use that the same turn you get it to get the VPs for the hearts you rolled that turn?
 
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Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
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Sappington wrote:
The Kraken has an evolution that gives you 1vp for every heart scored. I don't remember exact wording, but can you use that the same turn you get it to get the VPs for the hearts you rolled that turn?


"Cult Following
Discard this Evolution to gain 1VP for each Heart you rolled."

This Evolution should work fine using it 'same turn', as it cares about "Hearts you rolled", not "Hearts you are currently rolling".
Your dice results are still 'there' during the Buy-Phase, they just generally don't 'do' anything.

 
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muuvi pappa
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I'm a bit confused as to what the consensus is? Can I play Evolution cards immediately upon drawing them if they need to be triggered by something I do during the same resolution phase
Examples:
1. Kraken, Wave of Ruin: Discard this Evolution when you take Tokyo. All other Monsters take 2 damage.
2. Kraken, Dread Maw: When you damage a Monster with an attack, he loses 1 VP.
3. Meka Dragon, Mecha Blast: Discard this Evolution to deal 2 extra damage.
etc...
 
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Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
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muhe wrote:
I'm a bit confused as to what the consensus is? Can I play Evolution cards immediately upon drawing them if they need to be triggered by something I do during the same resolution phase
Examples:
1. Kraken, Wave of Ruin: Discard this Evolution when you take Tokyo. All other Monsters take 2 damage.
2. Kraken, Dread Maw: When you damage a Monster with an attack, he loses 1 VP.
3. Meka Dragon, Mecha Blast: Discard this Evolution to deal 2 extra damage.
etc...


My thoughts, for what it's worth:
1. Wave of Ruin: You get the Evolution too late to do any good. But I can see a possible case for using it same turn.
Thought process: Damage happens as part of Dice Resolution, damage causes "stay or leave Tokyo" option, so "stay/leave Tokyo" is part of Dice Resolution. Gaining an Evolution is part of Dice Resolution > you get the Evolution too late to use.

2. Dread maw: The attack has already happened, does not work.

3. Mecha Blast: I just realized this card is poorly worded.
If you interpret it as "Deal 2 extra damage when attacking", then it is too late to use the card same turn.
If you interpret it as "Deal 2 damage to all other monsters" (no attack required), then you can use it same turn.
(compare/contrast Halloween Evolution 'Worm Invaders', which straight up just deals 2 damage to everyone else)
 
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grarrrg wrote:
muhe wrote:
I'm a bit confused as to what the consensus is? Can I play Evolution cards immediately upon drawing them if they need to be triggered by something I do during the same resolution phase
Examples:
1. Kraken, Wave of Ruin: Discard this Evolution when you take Tokyo. All other Monsters take 2 damage.
2. Kraken, Dread Maw: When you damage a Monster with an attack, he loses 1 VP.
3. Meka Dragon, Mecha Blast: Discard this Evolution to deal 2 extra damage.
etc...


My thoughts, for what it's worth:
1. Wave of Ruin: You get the Evolution too late to do any good. But I can see a possible case for using it same turn.
Thought process: Damage happens as part of Dice Resolution, damage causes "stay or leave Tokyo" option, so "stay/leave Tokyo" is part of Dice Resolution. Gaining an Evolution is part of Dice Resolution > you get the Evolution too late to use.

2. Dread maw: The attack has already happened, does not work.

Couldn't you use the same thought process for Q2, i.e., the attack happens during the same resolution phase that the Evolution is drawn?
 
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Biodiesel
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Test
I want to say I saw a ruling from the designer that you could roll your 3 hearts, gain the Kraken evolution that doubles your hearts, and immediately play it to earn 6 hearts for that turn.
 
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Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
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muhe wrote:
grarrrg wrote:
My thoughts, for what it's worth:
1. Wave of Ruin: You get the Evolution too late to do any good. But I can see a possible case for using it same turn.
Thought process: Damage happens as part of Dice Resolution, damage causes "stay or leave Tokyo" option, so "stay/leave Tokyo" is part of Dice Resolution. Gaining an Evolution is part of Dice Resolution > you get the Evolution too late to use.

2. Dread maw: The attack has already happened, does not work.

Couldn't you use the same thought process for Q2, i.e., the attack happens during the same resolution phase that the Evolution is drawn?


The thought process was to help describe why you could NOT do #1.
But I did say I could see #1 working same turn. But not #2.
#1 has more 'moving parts' "deal damage > decide stay/go > if go, I go in". There's enough wiggle room I can see an interpretation for "use evolution same turn".
It all depends on if "stay/go Tokyo" is considered part of "resolving the dice".

But #2 just triggers on "attack", which is quick over and done with, making it too late to play the just-drawn Evolution.

Sappington wrote:
I want to say I saw a ruling from the designer that you could roll your 3 hearts, gain the Kraken evolution that doubles your hearts, and immediately play it to earn 6 hearts for that turn.


Best I can find quickly is the FAQ says you can "Partially resolve dice", and re-roll the remainder
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/743476/faq-english-answered-...
(towards the bottom)
But this wouldn't work, as the Power Up! Rules state: "If a monster ends his rolls with at least 3 [heart]" get an Evolution.
So to get an Evolution you have to have resolved ALL dice. And once the dice are resolved you can no longer benefit from 'double hearts'.

There may be a different thread that talks about it though.
 
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My bad, I probably misread your "though process argument".

Sappington wrote:
I want to say I saw a ruling from the designer that you could roll your 3 hearts, gain the Kraken evolution that doubles your hearts, and immediately play it to earn 6 hearts for that turn.

I'd really like to see a link to this ruling.
 
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Lachlan Blackmore
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grarrrg wrote:

My thoughts, for what it's worth:
1. Wave of Ruin: You get the Evolution too late to do any good. But I can see a possible case for using it same turn.
Thought process: Damage happens as part of Dice Resolution, damage causes "stay or leave Tokyo" option, so "stay/leave Tokyo" is part of Dice Resolution. Gaining an Evolution is part of Dice Resolution > you get the Evolution too late to use.

Don't you resolve dice in the order of your choosing? So pick an order than lets you do all of that. Hearts before Attack. Simple enough.

Order of resolution makes scenarios 2 and 3 possible also.
 
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Randy D

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This is very simple:
1) Roll up to 3 times.
2) Draw Evolution card if 3+ hearts.
3) Resolve Dice in any order you choose.
4) Buy Card(s).

Evolution cards can be used to affect steps 3-4, but not step 1 on the turn they are drawn.
 
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