Recommend
9 
 Thumb up
 Hide
33 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Terra Mystica» Forums » Variants

Subject: turn order rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
jean luc mari
France
marseille
france
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
With my group of players, we prefer to play in the order of pass. The first one to pass, will play the first one the following turn, the second to pass will play the second, etc.

may be a little board and some tokens to help us in the coming expansion ?

5 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc
Germany
Pliezhausen
Baden-Wuerttemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I dont get what you're trying to say - you could make your own board (what for?) and use tokens to keep track of turn order. But why should you play like that in the first place?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allan Clements
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
badge
Turns out Esseb did touch the flag. Don't tell him I said so though.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If one player often passes early, then whoever is sat to the left of him would get to go second no matter how many actions they took.

When there is competition for spaces to terraform, or a race up the cult track it can matter
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chasseur d'Ours
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think it's a good idea, the turn order could be very important.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jean luc mari
France
marseille
france
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
It is important also for the use of power actions
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc
Germany
Pliezhausen
Baden-Wuerttemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm pretty sure this was taken into account. The game works very well like it is (seems pretty balanced and well playtested to me), I don't see any need for a change in the rules.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Eisen
United States
Menlo Park
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Elektro wrote:
I'm pretty sure this was taken into account. The game works very well like it is (seems pretty balanced and well playtested to me), I don't see any need for a change in the rules.


We do, although have not yet tested with this variant.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Day
United Kingdom
Lee
LONDON
flag msg tools
Oi!
badge
That tickles!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
2nd player to pass chooses direction of play could also work and requires no extra components.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chasseur d'Ours
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
urmao wrote:
It is important also for the use of power actions


not only, to send a priest on the cult track or to tranform an build
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jean luc mari
France
marseille
france
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
jond wrote:
2nd player to pass chooses direction of play could also work and requires no extra components.



interesting idea
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
Germany
München
Bavaria
flag msg tools
badge
Wiggle It!!!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When I read the rules, I just knew that this would be the first thing the players would complain about!

I, too, think that it works pretty good this way. It is just more easy to perform actions clockwise instead of an always different order board.

Just PLAN with this situation! Do the real important things first, and then pass as early as possible. But as soon as the first player has passed, it is not important anymore how long you need to finish your turn.

I like this tension! It's always a race to pass as early as possible, but once it has happened, the other player can take their time. I like this very much!
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Grogan
United Kingdom
Cullompton
Devon
flag msg tools
designer
Check out all my instructional How to Play videos at youtube.com/GamingRulesVideos
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jond wrote:
2nd player to pass chooses direction of play could also work and requires no extra components.


I just got the Eclipse expansion and I think that is what is suggested there, though I personally prefer the turn order in order of passing.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dvonn Yinsh
Canada
Etobicoke
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Our group already does this with Agricola. Taking first player only affects you. Everyone else stays in play order.

So the first time I explained the rule in TM, someone suggested that the following round be played in pass order.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jan Bazynski
Poland
Warsaw
Mazowieckie
flag msg tools
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
I hate the "first player to pass is first and after that let's go clockwise" in games that turn order matters, I consider it a flaw in the rules. But I am not quite sure that in TM the turn order based on the order of passing would be the right way to go - I did not play much yet but isn't it true that some factions have built within themselves having more actions available but having a drawback in some other aspect?

I think that I will check how the "2nd to pass decides the direction of play" will work.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert
Germany
Bocholt
flag msg tools
badge
I paid 100 Geek Gold so that you can read this! :-)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Reviving an older thread because that's what we did in my last FtF gaming session: player order in round n+1 was the same as passing order in round n. In our games I felt it didn't make much difference, but in a recent online game I did get hurt from the fact that the player behind me was the first to pass in several rounds, and while it really didn't help that player (he/she even missed BON/FAV/race actions to pass first), it helped the other two quite a bit (especially the one behind "Mr. Early Pass" ) and hampered me as I rarely got any of the power actions I desired. How I would have loved to have that player just before me instead of just behind me! :-P

I'm tempted to make this a house rule for my future FtF games: it allows everybody to forge his/her own destiny a bit more without changing the balance.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Michaud
United States
Longwood
Florida
flag msg tools
On-Line Want List Generator - Hopefully Making Math Trades a Little Bit Easier
badge
Captain Kirk, Captain Picard, Captain Sisko, Captain Janeway, Captain Archer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Elektro wrote:
I'm pretty sure this was taken into account. The game works very well like it is (seems pretty balanced and well playtested to me), I don't see any need for a change in the rules.

yes, they took it into account... knew it could be a problem... but opted to KISS it (kiss = "keep it simple stupid")...

the expansion however makes this an official variant and includes components.

Kamakaze wrote:
If one player often passes early, then whoever is sat to the left of him would get to go second no matter how many actions they took.

even worse if you are the player to the right of this person in a 5 player game!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rhett Morgan
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The original makes games with opponents of different skill levels imbalanced. I would prefer the original in tournament play however.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Michaud
United States
Longwood
Florida
flag msg tools
On-Line Want List Generator - Hopefully Making Math Trades a Little Bit Easier
badge
Captain Kirk, Captain Picard, Captain Sisko, Captain Janeway, Captain Archer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
fwiw played 1st game last night using variable turn order.... 5 players... I was sitting to the right of the Engineers who often passed early so I would have often been last.

glad to see Terra Mystica move into the same realm as Power Grid!!!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Attila Kisvári
Hungary
Bokros
Csongrád
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Prodigaldax wrote:
I would prefer the original in tournament play however.

Please let me have some details on why!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rhett Morgan
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In tournament play you're more or less likely to have a table of equivalent skill level - based on ELO or another scale usually. With a table or equal skill manipulating the turn order to your advantage is a part of the game. As long as the difference in skill isn't too high then you may end up passing slightly earlier than planned (maybe one action less than your most efficient round) as a trade-off for greater turn order.

In games with vastly greater skill differences it frequently devolves into the lowest skilled player passing first every round or someone losing several actions to take first action the following round which won't pay back for the lost actions.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Michaud
United States
Longwood
Florida
flag msg tools
On-Line Want List Generator - Hopefully Making Math Trades a Little Bit Easier
badge
Captain Kirk, Captain Picard, Captain Sisko, Captain Janeway, Captain Archer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Prodigaldax wrote:
In tournament play you're more or less likely to have a table of equivalent skill level - based on ELO or another scale usually. With a table or equal skill manipulating the turn order to your advantage is a part of the game. As long as the difference in skill isn't too high then you may end up passing slightly earlier than planned (maybe one action less than your most efficient round) as a trade-off for greater turn order

even w/equal skilled players imho letting seating order dictate turn order even in tournament is flawed....

.... I don't have stats so take this w/grain of salt, but I conjecture that races that don't have an "action" for their stronghold ability will probably pass sooner than one that does... if you have an action there and you are sitting to the right of a race that doesn't, unless they picked up a favor tile and/or bonus tile w/an action on it and you didn't, ....

I can't find the reference but I thought the designer said base game is table order only because there are already enough rules and having variable turn order would have pushed it over the edge at the time...

... now TM can move into the area where other great games have had variable turn order... Caylus, Power Grid, etc... only Puerto Rico stands out as being table order, and is often criticized for it as being to the left of the least experienced player is often enough to give you an advantage....
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rhett Morgan
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As I said, the balancing part with equal skill is giving up an available action to take lead in turn order. The trick is knowing when you need to do it and when you don't.

As to SH actions, Chaos Magicians disagree with you. Plus the positives you receive from most of those actions well outweighs the unfortunate side effect that you pass later in most turns. Witches are better off without their SH again for a similar reason most games. I don't feel like any of this is imbalanced or unfair as long as everyone's on the same playing field. I can see why you might disagree though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Georg D.
Germany
Höxter
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Prodigaldax wrote:
With a table or equal skill manipulating the turn order to your advantage is a part of the game. As long as the difference in skill isn't too high then you may end up passing slightly earlier than planned (maybe one action less than your most efficient round) as a trade-off for greater turn order.

But only for first place. Assume it is of high interest for me to do my first turn before player A the next round. So I consider to pass early this round. Then before it is my turn player B passes. Now it doesn't matter any more if I pass early or not. All the interesting decision for me is gone. I think in this case the game would be more interesting if I still would have an advantage of passing early.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rhett Morgan
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree, it makes decisions more interesting but I don't think interesting is necessary for tournament play. Either way, both would work for tournaments I just think I would prefer the more challenging version.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert
Germany
Bocholt
flag msg tools
badge
I paid 100 Geek Gold so that you can read this! :-)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I became a big fan of the passing-order-determines-next-round-playing-order thing, so much that I'm (trying to ) use it as a house rule in any TM game I play (new player introduction games excluded).

It would make a nice addition to tournament games, too. But as mentioned elsewhere, I'd rather stick to the current setup for a few more (2+) seasons, until more players get accustomed to the new maps, variants and factions from the expansion.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.