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1812: The Invasion of Canada» Forums » News

Subject: 1775 - Rebellion on Kickstarter rss

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uwe eickert
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We have launched a Kickstarter campaign for 1775 - Rebellion, the second game in the Birth of America Series.
http://kck.st/UhwjZ2

1775 plays totally different than 1812, even though 95% of the rules are the same. Now players can bring reinforcements into any city, IF they control the colony the city is located in.
We also included the French, Hessian Germans, and free for all Native tribes!
Thanks for your support.
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Josh Christensen
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Looks great, can't wait to get my copy
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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That moves it to the back burner for me. Once it's available through normal distribution I'll check it out.
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M·ANTONIVS·M·F·M·N
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I thought 1812 was a great game and would have picked up 1775 as soon as it came out.......

Unfortunately my feelings towards kickstarter will prevent me from getting this.
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Jason Pontious
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thekingofblades wrote:
Looks great, can't wait to get my copy


Agreed. I'm now a backer. No issues with Kickstarter here so you gladly have my support as I thought 1812 was great and look forward to 1775.
 
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Steve Duke
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Sphere wrote:
That moves it to the back burner for me. Once it's available through normal distribution I'll check it out.


Why?
 
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sduke wrote:

Why?


I would imagine he is anti-kickstarter.

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Ty Snouffer
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Was there any doubt that this game was coming out? Let's say it doesn't reach its KS goal. Does that mean it won't be released?
 
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Dave VanderArk
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tsnouffer wrote:
Was there any doubt that this game was coming out? Let's say it doesn't reach its KS goal. Does that mean it won't be released?

First thing I thought as well. Was there really a need for a KS campaign?
 
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TonyClifton wrote:
sduke wrote:

Why?


I would imagine he is anti-kickstarter.


Bingo.
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uwe eickert
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Why support our project through Kickstarter? I would like to give you a some reasons why Kickstarter is so important to us and why we need your support.

Through our normal wholesale distribution channels, we earn 34% MSRP. So for a game like 1775 Rebellion that sells for $70 MSRP, we receive $23.80.

Before we ever see this money, we have to pay:
The graphic artists for the cards, maps, and rules layouts. The cover painting artist. The graphic designer for the box layout.
In addition we have to pre-pay the printer for 4,000 copies. The another $4,000 just to ship the product to America. (We are desperately looking for an American printer that can print the large map boards that we utilize and also can get access to non-warping core board.)

So we have to pre-pay ~$70k before we even see the games. Then we hope that the games sell. Our money is tied up in inventory for several months, if not longer. We have to pay designer royalties, advertising in the trade catalogs, send free review copies, warehousing, the phone bill, etc. The margin between our 34% MSRP income and our costs & expenses is very slim. So we are lucky to break even after 4 months on average and only then IF all of our distributors pay us on time, if at all. Many of our world wide distributor friends are in financial trouble and cannot pay us for months sometimes.

So you can see that we have to be VERY careful in what we add to our games to control costs. Then there are the deep discount internet re-sellers. They often sell games for up to 35% under MSRP. This actually ruins our game sales long term, because it drives many game stores out of business or forces them to reduce their normal game purchases. An online deep discounter will advertise and sell a game for a few weeks and then the game disappears from their main traveled pages. Compare that to a retail outlet that keeps a copy on the shelf, where customers can look at the game, touch it and even play it with others. Once sold, the store then replaces this game with a new copy. This increases the sales life of a game, giving it a 'long tail'. And this long tail helps us move the inventory that we had to pre-pay for 8 months earlier.

All of a sudden, we have a Kickstarter option. If we meet our goals we can increase the quality of the game components and add extra items that are not possible any other way. PLUS we get 90% of the MSRP up front!

You have no idea what a burden this takes off of a small publisher's shoulders. In one fell swoop our printing costs are covered and we do not have to worry how to pay for the next game's development. Plus, if the game is successful, retail outlets become aware of the game and pre-order more copies. So this funding method helps us all.

Game development and publishing is a tough business and Academy Games has been very fortunate. We have a very loyal fan and distributor base, so our games sell well world wide. Secondly, we are very well funded. BUT, I have not been able to pay myself a salary in the past four years. Every penny goes back into the company as we grow.

So please reconsider your opinion of Kickstarter and do not think that a game would be published anyway. There are too many game companies that have gone under to take this for granted.

Uwe Eickert
President - Academy Games
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uweeickert wrote:
You have no idea what a burden this takes off of a small publisher's shoulders.

I appreciate that it does that, Uwe, but it does so by passing that burden to the shoulders of consumers. I don't buy books before they are published, and I don't buy tickets to movies before they are filmed. Same deal with games. No disrespect intended. I simply believe that from a rational consumer's perspective, the shift to a crowd-sourcing paradigm is madness.

I know you've managed to publish games the old fashioned way in the past - I offer 1812, Strike of the Eagle and 3 Conflict of Heroes titles on my shelves in evidence. I'll undoubtedly buy more if they become available through normal distribution, but I won't back anybody's Kickstarter project. What small amount of working capital I have will be used for my family's needs, not as interest-free capital for game publishers.

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Sphere wrote:
I appreciate that it does that, Uwe, but it does so by passing that burden to the shoulders of consumers.


While I understand your point of view, I have absolutely no issue giving academy games a small amount of interest-free capital up front. This is especially true since I know it helps them produce even better components than we would have received. And all of this on top of a game I have a 99% chance of loving (1812 was great for me). Supporting them is a no brainer for me as I want to see them continue to produce great games and if this takes a small burden off their shoulders I will do it gladly as they seem to produce nothing but great games.

Now having said that there are a lot of Kickstarters with a lot more risk involved than this one for me. And I am extremely cautious of supporting many things on Kickstarter as the risks are much higher. But this is one I am behind 100%.

But again everyone has to evaluate how they want to spend their money. This includes whether to support Kickstarter projects and the inherit risks involved (including paying up front with months before you actually receive anything).
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Deb Wentworth
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^^ what he said.
 
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Lou Moratti
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Looks nice and interesting but......what you do on a turn, the descriptions on the cards, the board, the dice and chits......everything looks way too close to 1812 to warrant a purchase. It really looks like same game, different war.
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Ty Snouffer
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Wow. I'm so conflicted about this. Great points all. Uwe and his team definitely put out great products. At the same time, I've done my share of support this year with about 15 game purchases. Too much for my budget (and the amount of time I have to play) honestly.

After a day or two it looks like the $10k goal is going to be a no-brainer. I'll probably put a note in my calendar and check back in in 3 weeks to see if they are going to hit the stretch goals. If they are, maybe I'm in at that point. Doesn't help the group, but works for my budget. . .
 
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Dave VanderArk
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David Vander Ark wrote:
First thing I thought as well. Was there really a need for a KS campaign?

uweeickert wrote:
Why support our project through Kickstarter? I would like to give you a some reasons why Kickstarter is so important to us and why we need your support.


Thanks for answering. I have supported several games through Kickstarter, but not any from established publishers. Your explanation clarifies the challenges even an established publisher is faced with.

I will be backing 1775.
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Throknor
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It's a shame Uwe's response might be buried here, as it is a good one. As I understand it pre-ordering isn't all that rare in wargaming. It seems to me that a large benefit Kickstarter brings is that no money is collected unless the goal is reached. And, possibly more significantly in this day and age, no personal or payment information is either. In fact, all of the up-front money tracking is removed from the publisher's 'to do' list; they get a single check (minus a commission that can be planned for in the goal(s)) and a list of customers and their chosen products.

That's not to say it doesn't introduce other challenges or pitfalls for publishers, or that potential supporters shouldn't evaluate products to their own satisfaction. But from a certain point of view it's just an external pre-order system.
 
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Ty Snouffer
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The $10,000 goal has been reached.
 
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Throknor wrote:
As I understand it pre-ordering isn't all that rare in wargaming.

I'm afraid that's irrelevant, because Kickstarter is not a pre-order system. Technically you're not even making a purchase when they charge your credit card for a Kickstarter project, and consequently you aren't even covered by consumer protection laws in a worst case scenario (e.g. Katalyka).
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Mike Szarka
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Sphere wrote:
Throknor wrote:
As I understand it pre-ordering isn't all that rare in wargaming.

I'm afraid that's irrelevant, because Kickstarter is not a pre-order system. Technically you're not even making a purchase when they charge your credit card for a Kickstarter project, and consequently you aren't even covered by consumer protection laws in a worst case scenario (e.g. Katalyka).


True enough, but to be fair, Academy Games has an impeccable reputation that I am certain they will maintain.
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Sphere wrote:
Throknor wrote:
As I understand it pre-ordering isn't all that rare in wargaming.

I'm afraid that's irrelevant, because Kickstarter is not a pre-order system. Technically you're not even making a purchase when they charge your credit card for a Kickstarter project, and consequently you aren't even covered by consumer protection laws in a worst case scenario (e.g. Katalyka).

Not all Kickstarters are created equal. I think the primary problem isn't publishers like Academy looking for a means to make certain that they can produce the best game possible. It's unvetted and untested ones who don't do any of the hard work until they have money in hand. I've backed several projects by Small Box, for example, and have been thrilled with the results. But I also know John Clowdus and trust that he can put together a kickass game with some additional resources. He's always heavily invested in the project by the time it hits Kickstarter for things like art. I wouldn't do that for just anyone.
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Steve Duke
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So has this turned into a debate on the kickstarter program or do we just acknowledge that it is what it is and that this game will come out that way?

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Throknor
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Sphere wrote:
Throknor wrote:
As I understand it pre-ordering isn't all that rare in wargaming.

I'm afraid that's irrelevant, because Kickstarter is not a pre-order system. Technically you're not even making a purchase when they charge your credit card for a Kickstarter project, and consequently you aren't even covered by consumer protection laws in a worst case scenario (e.g. Katalyka).
Throknor wrote:
That's not to say it doesn't introduce other challenges or pitfalls for publishers, or that potential supporters shouldn't evaluate products to their own satisfaction. But from a certain point of view it's just an external pre-order system.


In this instance, evaluating the company and product involved it is a pre-order method. I attempted to be specific that this is a case-by-case evaluation, and there are always risks involved, but apparently I wasn't blatant enough. Yes, Kickstarter as a whole is not simply a pre-ordering system. But it some specific instances it serves as one, and this product is such an instance.

For me this isn't a debate about Kickstarter overall but whether in this instance potential buyers should pay more upfront and risk getting nothing vs.* getting the game early, or wait for the game to be sold through normal channels cheaper later.

* Between the company's record and the goal being met this is fairly unlikely, though again potential buyers/investors should decide for themselves.
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Throknor wrote:
In this instance, evaluating the company and product involved it is a pre-order method.

Even if that were true, a comparison to a good pre-order system would make Kickstarter look bad. The last game I bought through GMT's P-500 program arrived on my doorstep 9 days after my credit card was charged. I could have cancelled with the click of a button any time up until that point. Kickstarter projects charge cards when funding is reached, before the game is even manufactured, months before the projected ship date. Publishers who choose to allow cancellations after cards are charged have to go outside the system to do it.
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