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Subject: Merry Christmas, everyone!!! rss

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Tim Thorp
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http://www.mypartypost.com/watchvideo/1033/Best_Christmas_Li...
 
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Jorgen
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I bet there power company is very happy when they pay there bills.

Related:
http://www.ics-base.net/xmas2005/

Edit: (Mildly not work safe. Cartoon.)
 
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If I'm not mistaken, that's the Trans Siberian Orchestra playing along with the lights. The stuff I've heard on the radio sounds cool, so I bought one of their CDs last year. It's OK, so long as the singer doesn't sing, but as soon as he starts, they become an old, glam style, cock-rock band.

Oh, and I hope there are no epileptic kids in that neighborhood....
 
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Dane Peacock
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Verkisto wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, that's the Trans Siberian Orchestra playing along with the lights. The stuff I've heard on the radio sounds cool, so I bought one of their CDs last year. It's OK, so long as the singer doesn't sing, but as soon as he starts, they become an old, glam style, cock-rock band.

Oh, and I hope there are no epileptic kids in that neighborhood....


The reason they sound somewhat like an old glam style cock-rock band is because they have their roots in an old school heavy metal band called Savatage.

Savatage's producer, Paul O'Neill, put together TSO which included members from Savatage, a large orchestra, solo violinists, many different female and male vocals, choruses, and even a children's choir.

I have been to their concerts and it is funny to watch several people leave during the first few minutes. They hear 'Christmas Canon' on the radio and picture TSO as something like Manheim Steamroller. They are surprised, to say the least.

TSO has three Christmas albums and one non Christmas album called Beethoven's Last Night, which is a mix of classical and metal. The vocals are a little heavy handed, but overall, the music is outstanding.
 
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Dane Peacock
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I forgot to say that this year we purchased two front row tickets to the concert held in Salt Lake City. My 14 year old son loves TSO. We surprised him and my 17 year old daughter with the tickets and they went to the show over Thanksgiving weekend. We told them that the seats were not that good, but we did the best we could. They were happy just to get the tickets. So, once they got there, they were doubly surprised!

My kids love me right now.
 
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Sky Knight X wrote:
The vocals are a little heavy handed, but overall, the music is outstanding.


Oh, I agree. I love their instrumental stuff, it's just that male singer that gets on my nerves. He puts too much drama into the singing, and it's just hard to take it seriously when it reaches that point.

I grew up on cock-rock heavy metal, and still love the sound of a heavily distorted guitar.
 
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David Peterson
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Be careful...you might get taken to court for saying "Christmas"......heaven forbid it offend anyone....
 
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Ed Holzman
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davidgpeterson wrote:
Be careful...you might get taken to court for saying "Christmas"......heaven forbid it offend anyone....


Sigh. I don't think we need to worry about it David. The complete and total secularization of Christmas was completed many years ago (when the spineless and wretched "Happy Holidays" cards first started appearing). Christmas is no longer a celebration of the birth of our Savior; rather it is an excuse for conspicuous consumption and consumerism. Instead of the exchange of simple gifts as a token symbol in memory of the gifts given to the newborn King, the need for such events as "Black Friday" and mass media fretting over sales volumes has taken over.

Why don't we all just erect an aluminum pole, air our grievances, and perform feats of strength? It has about just as much to do with Christ as the current incarnation of Christmas.
 
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Clinton Smith
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Actually, It is an unusually sensitive subgroup of Christians who are forever getting offended, and incessantly whining, just because everyone else doesn't conform to their belief system. If Christmas is important to a person they should celebrate in the manner of their own choosing, but they shouldn't expect everyone else to conform to their way.
 
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Brian Morris
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As compared to the unusually sensitive subgroup of people who hate other unusually sensitive subgroups.

Artaxerxes wrote:
Actually, It is an unusually sensitive subgroup of Christians who are forever getting offended, and incessantly whining, just because everyone else doesn't conform to their belief system. If Christmas is important to a person they should celebrate in the manner of their own choosing, but they shouldn't expect everyone else to conform to their way.
 
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Tim Thorp
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Quote:
As compared to the unusually sensitive subgroup of people who hate other unusually sensitive subgroups.


Artaxerxes wrote:
Actually, It is an unusually sensitive subgroup of Christians who are forever getting offended, and incessantly whining, just because everyone else doesn't conform to their belief system. If Christmas is important to a person they should celebrate in the manner of their own choosing, but they shouldn't expect everyone else to conform to their way.


Here we go again... shake
 
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Ed Holzman
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Artaxerxes wrote:
Actually, It is an unusually sensitive subgroup of Christians who are forever getting offended, and incessantly whining, just because everyone else doesn't conform to their belief system. If Christmas is important to a person they should celebrate in the manner of their own choosing, but they shouldn't expect everyone else to conform to their way.


Nah, I am not unusually sensitive and not really offended either, just befuddled. I fail to see the logic of celebrating a Christian holiday if you are not a Christian. The answer, of course, is that Christmas is no longer a Christian holiday since it has been co-opted by the secular forces of commercial sales and Festivus-style nonsense. Just because this is the same, tired old argument that Christians truck out every year at this time does not invalidate the core truth of it.

The actual point I was trying to make in my post is that Christmas is no longer Christian and public mentions of "Merry Christmas" should not be seen as something that might be a violation of that sacrosanct seperation of church and state, bringing the ACLU down on you like a ton of bricks (as in years past).

Please, feel free to celebrate whatever you wish to celebrate. You can even call it Christmas, I suppose, even though it is not. Maybe you just don't know any better. The great thing about free will is that God gave it to everyone and that gives you the choice to act as you wish.
 
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Clinton Smith
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As compared to the unusually sensitive subgroup of people who hate other unusually sensitive subgroups.

That's what I'm talking about. Oh, the poor, paranoid, persecuted Christians! If anybody disagrees with them it only can be because of the hate that the awful nonconformist has for them.
 
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Clinton Smith
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I fail to see the logic of celebrating a Christian holiday if you are not a Christian.

Exactly. Happy holidays.

Please, feel free to celebrate whatever you wish to celebrate.

I appreciate that, my friend.

The great thing about free will is that God gave it to everyone and that gives you the choice to act as you wish.

The jury is still out on the free will thing.
 
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Jorgen
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Artaxerxes wrote:
The great thing about free will is that God gave it to everyone and that gives you the choice to act as you wish.

The jury is still out on the free will thing.


Yeah, Allah locked himself in the restroom after the other deities wanted to give it to *Gasp!* Women! shake

The above post is satire.
 
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You think Christians are intolerant and hateful people and thus you hate them all. Ok.... shake

Artaxerxes wrote:

Oh, the poor, paranoid, persecuted Christians! If anybody disagrees with them it only can be because of the [i]hate
that the awful nonconformist has for them.
 
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Bearcat89 wrote:

Nah, I am not unusually sensitive and not really offended either, just befuddled. I fail to see the logic of celebrating a Christian holiday if you are not a Christian. The answer, of course, is that Christmas is no longer a Christian holiday since it has been co-opted by the secular forces of commercial sales and Festivus-style nonsense. Just because this is the same, tired old argument that Christians truck out every year at this time does not invalidate the core truth of it.


Isn't it a pagan celebration that was co-opted by the christians and was then co-opted by the merchants? If anyone was getting annoyed it should be the wiccans and the druids...

 
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Tim Franklin
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Xlyce wrote:
Isn't it a pagan celebration that was co-opted by the christians and was then co-opted by the merchants? If anyone was getting annoyed it should be the wiccans and the druids...


Exactly. The scheduling, and the vast majority of the trappings that we'd recognise today are all "borrowed" from pre-dating festivals such as Yule, Saturnalia and probably several other lesser-known ones.

Another thing to take into account, at least in the UK, is the *vast* number of the casually religious. There are a lot of people here who are quite happy to sing Christmas carols, and may even go to church to do so, but other than that set foot in a church only for weddings and funerals. They're not, by any meaningful defintion, practicing Christians, and in my experience are celebrating an opportunity to be nice to people for a change rather than the birth of Jesus.

So, is it a religious holiday, or a non-religious one? And what *should* we call it?

The unspeakably bland US "Holiday season" / "Happy Holidays" is *not* an acceptable answer. If anyone's going to insist on taking the old label off, they should be prepared to give us a new one.
 
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tim-pelican wrote:
Xlyce wrote:
Isn't it a pagan celebration that was co-opted by the christians and was then co-opted by the merchants? If anyone was getting annoyed it should be the wiccans and the druids...


Exactly. The scheduling, and the vast majority of the trappings that we'd recognise today are all "borrowed" from pre-dating festivals such as Yule, Saturnalia and probably several other lesser-known ones.



Wow. You know Pagan rites by name!

I do recall from 'junior high'(?) that is was a Catholic PR-stunt (not offensively meant) :use the old festival of the returning light (end of Winter in sight, Summer will come, trees will be green&fruitful etc) and paste one of the most important Christan holy-days (hollidays?) on this important festival.
Hence all the lights and the green-tree-that-never-sheds.

Modern commercialism took advantage, but, well, who can blame them.

Shouldn't we call it Christmas? That's a new one to me. Why not? Has been for a couple of centuries. If people are offended, look for a country to live in with other holidays. C'mon. It's cultural. It's historical. And for some, it still even is religious.

By the way: great movie! Man, I would hate to be that man's neighbour!
 
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the_redstar_swl wrote:
Artaxerxes wrote:
The great thing about free will is that God gave it to everyone and that gives you the choice to act as you wish.

The jury is still out on the free will thing.


Yeah, Allah locked himself in the restroom after the other deities wanted to give it to *Gasp!* Women! shake

The above post is satire.


laugh Pretty good, Jorgen!
 
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Tim Franklin
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_Kael_ wrote:
Shouldn't we call it Christmas? That's a new one to me. Why not? Has been for a couple of centuries. If people are offended, look for a country to live in with other holidays. C'mon. It's cultural. It's historical. And for some, it still even is religious.


I totally agree. But it seems to cause problems for some people who are convinced that it either:

- Offends people who worship the Big Beard in the Sky in some other fashion and on some other date. I've met people who get a bit tired of explaining they don't celebrate Christmas - typically either Jews or real "hard-core" pagans of some kind, both of whom can't easily be picked out as having a different religion by virtue of their skin colour, and so get assumed to celebrate Christmas. I've never met anyone who's been *offended* by being wished a Merry Christmas.

- Isn't being celebrated as a Christian holiday, so shouldn't be allowed to use the name. (You'd think the Vatican would have unleased the trademark lawyers by now if this was really an issue). I can see that the first part is definitely true for some people, but the attitude that if only I wasn't busy spending money, I'd suddenly be enlightened enough to seek out God and repent my heathen ways, I find rather patronising.

Personally, I'm sticking with "Christmas", and loving it as always
 
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Bearcat89 wrote:

Nah, I am not unusually sensitive and not really offended either, just befuddled. I fail to see the logic of celebrating a Christian holiday if you are not a Christian. The answer, of course, is that Christmas is no longer a Christian holiday since it has been co-opted by the secular forces of commercial sales and Festivus-style nonsense. Just because this is the same, tired old argument that Christians truck out every year at this time does not invalidate the core truth of it.


Christmas is "not" a christian holiday. Christmas was originally a roman holiday to celebrate the festival to Saturn. Only later when Rome became christianized, and the Romans started to bring the populace to christianity did it become a christian holiday. SO really Saturnalia was co-opted by christians to a birth of christ-style nonsense.

meeple
 
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I'd love to participate in the religious discussion, but I don't see anything fruitful coming out of it. The mudslinging has already started and that's not going to get anybody anywhere. As a Christian, I love seeing other people come to Christ. There's almost no greater joy than to know that someone has accepted Christ and will thus spend eternity in heaven! However, I doubt anybody is going to be convinced to come to Him through this forum, as the conversation has already turned sour.

Anyways, a very MERRY CHRISTMAS to all those who believe, and HAPPY HOLIDAYS to those that don't!
 
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Quote:
Christmas is "not" a christian holiday. Christmas was originally a roman holiday to celebrate the festival to Saturn. Only later when Rome became christianized, and the Romans started to bring the populace to christianity did it become a christian holiday. SO really Saturnalia was co-opted by christians to a birth of christ-style nonsense.


It's really quite trivial what the holiday was originally meant for. We Christians choose to use December 25th to celebrate the birth of Jesus, by whom all believers are saved, while many non-Christians choose to use December 25th to celebrate family togetherness and what not.
 
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chaddyboy_2000 wrote:


It's really quite trivial what the holiday was originally meant for. We Christians choose to use December 25th to celebrate the birth of Jesus, by whom all believers are saved, while many non-Christians choose to use December 25th to celebrate family togetherness and what not.


That is completely true, it is quite trivial, except when attacked that we who celebrate the holiday season when not celebrating the birth of christ is nonsense. Believing that christmas a only a "christian" holiday.
 
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