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Subject: Hidden teams Go - In signup (6/14) rss

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Phelan
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Now that I know how to work with Cassy, I was thinking of starting this mixed werewolf/Go game.

Possible rules for discussion below.

Players are divided into two colors, black and white. Each player knows only his own colour. He doesn't know who are his teammates.
For every move(black and white) participants publicly nominate and vote on moves.
After a pre-determined amount of time, the move with the most votes is played. The nomination also counts as a vote.
I'm thinking a move every 24 hours.

After every X move played, where X depends on the board size, the players publicly vote on a player to kick off the game.
I'm thinking every 4 moves. This would also take 24 hours.

The board size will be 9x9. Here's an empty board of that size:


The team whose colour wins the game on the board wins the hidden teams game.

I will balance the teams and the game's handicap/komi in a way that makes it hard to know who is on which team.

Minimum participation would be at least a post per day, with a reason for picking a move. On player vote-offs, this is not as important, so just a vote is ok with me(it might not with other players).

I'm thinking that using computers to analyse the game is allowed, but you can't just say "computer says no" as reason for your move choice. You'd actually have to justify it in your own words, not mentioning the computer.

I'm thinking of additional details/rules, but would like to know how much interest there is in this before adding complexity.

If you're interested, please reply. I'd need to know your go level on a Go server, or if you don't have one, what experience you have with Go, in order to balance the teams.

P.S.- Also, a better name could help. Wolves and Liberties?
 
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Re: Hidden teams Go
Player List According to Cassandra:
adiamant
bazyn
bkarrigan
jmilum
kuchick
PkmSilver
SaiSaysPlayGo

7 players are signed up.

To sign up for this game go to
http://www.thecassandraproject.org/jeremy/werewolf/game/8887...
 
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Alberto Saracco
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Re: Hidden teams Go
That's cute.
How will you assign handicaps?

I think the eliminations should be done in a way to ensure that when the game finishes there are only at least 3 players left...
 
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Phelan
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Re: Hidden teams Go
Handicaps: Not sure yet. It depends on whether the people who show interest are already Go players or not. If they are, it should be easy to use their ranks and work from that.
If not, I'll probably have to assess Go knowledge from people with no ranks.

The last game went to 33 moves. Depending on the number of players, I'll probably adjust the numeber of moves between eliminations.
But why do you specifically want only 3 players left at the end? I'm not sure I understand.
 
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Alberto Saracco
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Re: Hidden teams Go
Well... Not only 3 players. At least 3... I was fearful that one eliminati on every four moves would reduce players too fast, and end with no players before the end of the game.
Are you planning to play on a 13x13 or on a 19x19?

What happens if all players from one team are voted out? Do they lose immediately?
And when there is a tie for the move, do you apply LHLV or something else?
How many players would be needed?
 
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Phelan
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Re: Hidden teams Go
I was planning on adjusting the number of moves to the number of players, as I said.

9x9 seems better, since the game might take too long otherwise. If there's enough interest, other sizes might make sense. Just added size information to the first post.

If all players from one team are voted out, they won't lose immediately. The other team would need to recognize that there aren't any opposing players, and declare victory.

I was planning on using LHLV for tied votes, yes. It's a useful method I was not aware of before coming here, and almost all players in the community seem to know about it.

I think the minimum would be 8 players for it to be interesting. Not sure.
 
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Robb Effinger
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Re: Hidden teams Go
So let's say after the first 4 moves we decide to vote out player X. Then player a says "I'm fairly confident that player X was on the white team, and I'm on the black team, so black now has the number's advantage. I propose white plays at A1". If player X was indeed on the white team, then black should win this vote, and white is going to make stupid moves for the rest of the game (or, at very least, for the next two moves, which would be pretty significant).
 
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Phelan
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Re: Hidden teams Go
I understand your concerns, but you're assuming that the size of team is both equal and known.
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Robb Effinger
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Re: Hidden teams Go
Phelanpt wrote:
I understand your concerns, but you're assuming that the size of team is both equal and known.


So assuming team sizes are not equal, then I should consider doing this on turn 1, since it's likely that I'm on the bigger team. (In reality, I'm more likely to do this as White, since I assume you'd handicap black by making the team smaller).

Also, if team sizes aren't equal, then even if I am playing this straight - I'm likely to vote for the second or third best move for my opponents color, and vote for the best move for my color. And I'm likely to try to vote off someone voting opposite me (Eg: someone likely to be on the other team). So even playing straight, the team with the most people has an edge. You'll need to give the smaller team something to help balance it... maybe a NK
 
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Alberto Saracco
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Re: Hidden teams Go
I just signed up on Cassandra.
I know how to play go, but played about 5 to 7 games in my whole life. Last time more than 5 years ago.
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Phelan
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Re: Hidden teams Go
Robb wrote:
Phelanpt wrote:
I understand your concerns, but you're assuming that the size of team is both equal and known.


So assuming team sizes are not equal, then I should consider doing this on turn 1, since it's likely that I'm on the bigger team. (In reality, I'm more likely to do this as White, since I assume you'd handicap black by making the team smaller).

Also, if team sizes aren't equal, then even if I am playing this straight - I'm likely to vote for the second or third best move for my opponents color, and vote for the best move for my color. And I'm likely to try to vote off someone voting opposite me (Eg: someone likely to be on the other team). So even playing straight, the team with the most people has an edge. You'll need to give the smaller team something to help balance it... maybe a NK
Hmm, good points. It might not be so easy to see who votes for best vs second/third best because of their knowledge vs because of their team, but I'll have to think about that.
 
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Alberto Saracco
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Re: Hidden teams Go
I won't play WW during winner holidays. If this starts between now and Jan, 4th, please drop me out of the game.

Thanks.


Merry Christmas and happy new year, everybody!
 
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Asher D.
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Re: Hidden teams Go
I just signed up on Cassandra.
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Malen Tucuric
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Re: Hidden teams Go
I just signed up. Looks like it'll be an awesome game!
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Jan Bazynski
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Re: Hidden teams Go
Werewolf AND Go? IN!
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Alyse Sefchik
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Re: Hidden teams Go
I just signed up on Cassandra.

This will be interesting.
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Darth BK
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Re: Hidden teams Go
I love GO! (Wish I could play more IRL)
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Phelan
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Re: Hidden teams Go
I guess I need to start working on the rules again.
 
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Phelan
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Re: Hidden teams Go
For people interested in Go, I've started a BGG WW group on the Nova.gs server: http://nova.gs/group/47/BGG%20WW
 
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L Squared hibou
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With Trigirl being this lock consensus good read for so many people, I find it really bizarre that she's alive. Just don't lock clear her for tone. There's a threshold where if she's still alive she should probably just be murdalated.
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I just signed up on Cassandra.
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Max DuBoff
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"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: / Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
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Is this still happening? Sounds quite fun!



(Also, Lindsey, I didn't know you play go! We should play online sometime.)
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Phelan
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MD1616 wrote:
Is this still happening?
I have it scheduled for April 1st, but it depends on how much time I have in April. I might need a co-mod.
MD1616 wrote:
Sounds quite fun?

I'll try to make a push for it to run around April. Maybe now that there are more WW players that know Go this will run.
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