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Ruhrschifffahrt 1769-1890» Forums » Rules

Subject: Forced to build locks if only one demand tile in the draw bag rss

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Warren Smith
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"Íf there is only 1 marker in the bag after one has been drawn, all players have to build a lock in the upcoming phase 6. All players then have to first build a lock before they may conduct any other actions in phase 6!"

1.) Regarding the first sentence, must all players build a lock even if they don't have the progress marker?

2.) Regarding the second sentence, which of the following is true?
a.) All players build a lock in turn order AND THEN all players conduct other actions in turn order
b.) All players build a lock and then conduct other actions in turn order (as usual).
 
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François Mahieu
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This is the very last issue I have with the rulebook.

I would say 1) yes and 2) option b, though a player isn't allowed to build anything until he has first built a lock.

Though I don't know if you may choose not to build a lock, or if you have no choice.
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
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I already critizised this rule.
I think it would be easier just to remove the first lock from the game board and use it as event, if there are no pieces left in the draw bag...

With this force build rule, there are too many exceptions and special cases, like those already listed...
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Steve Duff
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h00sha wrote:
"Íf there is only 1 marker in the bag after one has been drawn, all players have to build a lock in the upcoming phase 6. All players then have to first build a lock before they may conduct any other actions in phase 6!"

1.) Regarding the first sentence, must all players build a lock even if they don't have the progress marker?

2.) Regarding the second sentence, which of the following is true?
a.) All players build a lock in turn order AND THEN all players conduct other actions in turn order
b.) All players build a lock and then conduct other actions in turn order (as usual).


There really isn't a "first sentence" and "second sentence" here. It's two sentences describing one thing.

The first one gives you the general "everyone will have to build one" situation, with the second sentence fleshing it out with the specifics, namely that you build one, but still get to do your normal action.

Since it happens in phase 6 which is done in turn order, I do agree that each player builds their lock during their turn, not all at once beforehand.

Since the wording doesn't say that they need the progress marker, I'd say that everyone would do it, even if they didn't have it yet.

In reality, I don't think this rule is worth worrying about, I can't see it coming into play at all. Locks are the first thing you develop, since their pattern is so simple, and it's a subset of the other patterns you need for the more complicated markers. So, you don't have to go out of your way to get locks.

They're also cheap easy points, so players will be doing them a lot since it's a free action along with your normal turn, so the bag won't get to that situation anyway.
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Michael K.
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
They're also cheap easy points, so players will be doing them a lot since it's a free action along with your normal turn, so the bag won't get to that situation anyway.


What do you mean with 'cheap easy points'? Building a lock costs two thalers (and later on three) and you can only build one lock per turn.
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Warren Smith
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
Since the wording doesn't say that they need the progress marker, I'd say that everyone would do it, even if they didn't have it yet.

In reality, I don't think this rule is worth worrying about, I can't see it coming into play at all. Locks are the first thing you develop, since their pattern is so simple, and it's a subset of the other patterns you need for the more complicated markers. So, you don't have to go out of your way to get locks.

They're also cheap easy points, so players will be doing them a lot since it's a free action along with your normal turn, so the bag won't get to that situation anyway.
While I tend to agree with your assumptions about turn order, the other question still seems important to me. If you play the game with a less volatile water level (removing the two starred tiles) then this rule will come into play more often than "a rare occurrence". There would only be 4 tiles in the bag at the start of the game.

If I know that I don't need the progress marker to build a lock and I could potentially build one in turn 3 without having 'earned' the right, then on turn 2 I might focus my attention on getting the wage skill or the +2 skill or +3 skill right away, or set myself up for something else down the road.
 
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Carsten Buettemeier
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Loodlood wrote:
UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
They're also cheap easy points, so players will be doing them a lot since it's a free action along with your normal turn, so the bag won't get to that situation anyway.


What do you mean with 'cheap easy points'? Building a lock costs two thalers (and later on three) and you can only build one lock per turn.


Yes, but enabling the ability is rather easy as you just need a very simple pattern of development cubes.
 
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Steve Duff
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Loodlood wrote:
What do you mean with 'cheap easy points'? Building a lock costs two thalers (and later on three) and you can only build one lock per turn.


Exactly, since you only get to build one per turn, it's something that most players will take advantage of as much as they can. There's a reason why it's the simplest ability to unlock. 2 bucks is as cheap as anything gets in the game, and you might even get those 2 bucks for free just for delivering to a spot with money.

There's 34 points in locks just sitting there. From what I've seen, final scores are in the 30s and 40s. You can easily have 1/3 or a 1/4 of your score be from locks.

h00sha wrote:
If you play the game with a less volatile water level (removing the two starred tiles) then this rule will come into play more often than "a rare occurrence". There would only be 4 tiles in the bag at the start of the game.

If I know that I don't need the progress marker to build a lock and I could potentially build one in turn 3 without having 'earned' the right, then on turn 2 I might focus my attention on getting the wage skill or the +2 skill or +3 skill right away, or set myself up for something else down the road.


The rules go further and call it a "very rare occurrence", so it seems clear that this isn't supposed to be something you'll run into. It just seems clear to me that most players will open up the lock ability quickly, and several locks will be built on turns 2 and 3 while you work towards getting your ability to build warehouses. I guess this is what the designer expects as well.

Your comment is making me reconsider my position. It doesn't seem right that you can intentionally avoid getting the lock ability, and then still build them plus get points for them.

I'm thinking now that either I would limit it to just those with the lock ability, or only give the points out to those with the lock ability if all are forced to build.
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
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Have you seen the FAQ on the Spielworxx-Site?

Quote:
6.2 Water Level and Demand
Addendum to the very rare occurrence: If there is only one marker in the bag and all players cannot or do not want to build a lock (in this way no new markers get into the bag), phase 2 (drawing a demand marker) does not take place until there are again at least two markers in the bag.
If a coal die is transported to a city or small scale industry space containing one or two Thalers, the delivering player receives the Thalers immediately and puts them onto the income track of his player board.
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Jesse McGatha
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Almecho wrote:
Have you seen the FAQ on the Spielworxx-Site?

Quote:
6.2 Water Level and Demand
Addendum to the very rare occurrence: If there is only one marker in the bag and all players cannot or do not want to build a lock (in this way no new markers get into the bag), phase 2 (drawing a demand marker) does not take place until there are again at least two markers in the bag.
If a coal die is transported to a city or small scale industry space containing one or two Thalers, the delivering player receives the Thalers immediately and puts them onto the income track of his player board.


Given this, I would re-write the whole rule to cut the bit about forced building entirely. Instead, I would write it as:

Quote:
Rare Occurrence: If there is only one marker in the black bag because players have not built enough locks, do not draw a tile until a new tile is added to the bag.
 
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Warren Smith
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Indeed. This is the entire problem with the rule book IMO. I think we could even take it a bit further by saying:
Quote:
If there is only one marker in the black bag then skip this phase

On of my favourite rule books which I hold as a standard of sorts is the one for Dominant Species.
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