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Subject: Mega Game of Virgin Queen rss

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Sean McKenzie
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Recently I had a game end on T4, but that was just the time that the Catholic League formed, and this happens a lot actually. I wanted to play out the war and did.

Most games are ending T3-T5 and so I wanted to play a longer game. One guranteed to last all 7 turns.

The next post is my proposal. I am open to suggestion.

I would like to play a game with these rules, or as amended by agreement amongst the players.

Very open to suggestion/comment.

I believe what I have below encourages:

1) Obtaining VP/Victory early
2) More War especially to defeat a leader

I believe those who are craving more warlike games will like this.

Pursuing relatvely peaceful strategies I have found games ending T3 40-50%, T4 30-40%, and most of the rest are T5. Even the several military victories I saw did not go past T5. The 1 game I played that went to T7 was the second game I played. It was a Protestant Religious autowin, athough without some severely bad luck the HRE would have won earlier.
 
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Sean McKenzie
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Mega Virgin Queen


The game is played as normal but players will earn Campaign Victory Points (CVP), and victory will be determined at the end of Turn 7 with the winner being the one with most CVP, ties go to the player who was the first among those tied to gain a CVP, next to the one who earned the most CVP in the on the last turn of the game, next to the highest VP total at game end with tie breakers for that determined as per the rules.

The first player to achieve any victory condition receives 2 CVP and a Card Draw and a treasure. If this occurs in the Victory Determination Phase these will be the only CVP, cards, treasures awarded in that Victory Determination Phase.
After that:

In each Victory Determination Phase a player will receive 1 CVP for each Victory Condition Fulfilled at that time.

Religious Autowin, Military Autowin, Domination, and 25+ VP win, Gun Powder plot (see below).

All players who have their military auto win get 1 CVP, only 1 player per turn can get Religious, Domination, 25+ VP. The player who gets Domination must also get 25+ VP if both are awarded. i.e. A player with 25+ VP and 5 VP more than any other player would fulfill both Victory Conditions and get 2 CVP; only 1 player may claim the 25+ VP CVP, and tie breakers are determined as normal.

For each Victory Condition you have fulfilled at this time you get either a card draw or a treasure, player’s choice.

So if all 6 players have a Military Victory, 1 has a Religious Autowin, 1 has 25+VP and Domination, and Spain succeeded in a Gunpowder Plot (see below), up to 10 CVP could be awarded in a single Victory Determination phase. (based on the distribution of keys, it is not possible in a 6 player game for all 6 layers to fulfill their military Victory Condition, but in the case of other variants etc, this will be the rule).

Gun Powder Plot:

Spain gains 2 CVP if this is the first Victory Condition anyone achieved as per above, England loses 1 CVP regardless.
Spain will gain 1 VP in each subsequent Victory Determination Phase, as well as a card draw or treasure, like any other victory condition.

When the plot first succeeds, if this is the first time any Victory Condition has been achieved, Spain takes it’s card or treasure from the English hand if the English have anything available; if England has none Spain may Draw from the deck.

When the plot first succeeds:

Any war between England and Spain Ends.

Any Spanish Home Spaces under English Control revert to Spanish Control.

All of England’s Alliances with Major Powers are terminated.

England and Spain are now allied, and must remain allied for the rest of this turn and the next. This does not preclude play of the English Home Card England Reverts to Protestantism (see below)

Any Ally of Spain may end its war with England.

With Spain’s consent, Any Ally of Spain not at war with England may immediately Ally with England.

England and any current Ally may agree to return home spaces to each other. The ally may return English home spaces under its control to English control, and vis a vis.

With Spain’s consent, England may enter a state of war with any Power(s) at war with any Power with which England is now allied. These DoW’s have no cost.

If Spain controls any space in Ireland: all spaces in Ireland come under Spanish Control. Any English influence in Ireland is transferred to Spain.
If Spain controls any space in Scotland: Spain gains control of any space in Scotland that is Catholic, or under English control. Spain is now eligible to place influence in Scotland and wins all ties in Scotland. Spain immediately takes any English Influence in Scotland. The +2 drm for Scotland being Catholic now accrues to Spain. When Spain does conversions in England those conversions may also affect spaces in Scotland.

If Portugal is Allied to England, and Spain and England were at war when the plot succeeded, Portugal reverts to unaligned; Spain may choose to now be at war with Portugal, and so Spain will lose the ability to place influence in Portugal. Spain will retain control of any spaces in Portugal it already controls.

If Portugal is allied to England, and Spain and England were not at war when the plot succeeded, control of Portuguese spaces is unaffected.

For each space that Spain controls in England, Spain may either (a) roll 5 dice for conversions in England/Scotland (b) place 1 influence on any Power that Spain is eligible to place influence in and resolve its diplomacy. (c) Remove all Non Spanish Influence in Ireland (d) Remove all Non Spanish Influence in Scotland, but only if Spain is eligible to place influence in Scotland. After choosing one of the above for each Spanish controlled space in England, all such spaces revert to English control.

Any English informant or cipher key on the Spanish Power Card is neutralized/removed. Spain may place an Informant at no cost on England if eligible to do so.

In the subsequent Diplomacy Phase: Spain is free to arrange any marriages it wants for any remaining English Royals, England will get the effects of these marriages. Spain may loan any English fleets to itself.

From now on if England does Suppress Heresy, it must convert Protestant spaces to Catholic.

There can be no more Gunpowder Plots, only 1 successful plot per game.

England get’s two new home cards, available at the start of the next turn. Existing Home cards are no longer available, if one is in the English Hand, the Spanish player is given that many cp to either Preach Sermons in England/Scotland or suppress unrest, all must be spent and either Spanish or English units or both may be used to suppress unrest.

The Jilt Card (5cp) is now: England Reverts to Protestantism Spain and England are now at War again and for the rest of the game. England now does Suppress Heresy normally. London immediately becomes Protestant. Berwick and Carlisle immediately go into unrest. Papal Bull (1) is now Excommunicate England, England receives a -1 Card marker, (2) These conversion attempts may now affect England/Scotland. England and the Protestant may immediately agree to ally. England may still spend 5cp. Remove this card from the deck if played as an event. The War and Diplomacy card below is affected.

The Walsingham Card (4cp) is now War and Diplomacy

(a) Declaration of War – Declare war on any Power(s) and still spend 4 cp.
(b) Choose any Power that England is eligible to place influence in, roll a die, add that many English Influence to that power and resolve its diplomacy. England may gain control of Ireland if it wins this check with Ireland as the target. Ignore Irish Rebellion. Place 1 Eng Regular in Dublin, and Irish Rebels are removed from the map. This ability with respect to Ireland is lost if England Reverts to Protestantism has been played as an event.

Patronage
Countermix limitations for 3 VP awards remain in force.

A 2 VP award may be indicated by placing the artist face down on the Power card, when the 2 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted.

A 1 VP award may be indicated by placing the artist face down on the Power card, when the 1 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted.

Once the 1 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted, all Patronage DR’s are subject to a -1 DRM.

Science

A 2 VP award may be indicated by placing the Scientist face down on the Power card, when the 2 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted.

A 1 VP award may be indicated by placing the artist face down on the Power card, when the 1 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted.

Once the 1 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted, all Science DR’s are subject to a -1 DRM. Also, Once the 1 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted, if a player is eligible for a Science Bonus, but can not choose any of the available bonuses, he must choose to take a VP/2VP when that is the option, but when there is no option for a VP he gets a 1 cp treasure, use any convenient marker to indicate this; in effect a modified 15+ will earn you this special treasure after the 1 VP markers have been exhausted. Similarly, once the 1 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted, the Science Bonus treasure, may be played as usual but if the player can not legally choose an available bonus, he gets this special 1 cp treasure which may be played as usual in a future impulse.

HRE Religious Preference

If a religious auto win is achieved, the HRE may reveal its religious preference and lose 1 CVP, and then be allowed to choose and conceal his religious preference once again. This change in religious preference takes place immediately.
The HRE may choose to not reveal his religious preference to obtain a victory condition, or prevent another player from doing so. EX1: Another player has a Domination Victory prior to counting HRE VP for religion, the HRE may keep his religious preference secret, but then the other player is credited with the domination victory. EX2: The HRE has 25+ VP counting his VP from religion, but he may choose not to reveal his religious preference, in this case he is not credited with any VP from religion, and will not obtain a 25+ VP victory condition unless he has 25 VP from sources besides religion.

Any time the HRE reveals his religious preference to prevent/obtain a Victory Condition, he may lose 1 CVP to once again choose and conceal his religious preference. This change in religious preference does not take effect until any ongoing Victory Determination phase has concluded. i.e. whatever the HRE Victory Points from religion were at the start of the Victory Determination phase is what they are throughout the Victory Determination phase.

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Tom Stearns
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Gunpowder Plot effects seem over the top. I wouldn;t want to play with that. The campaign VP's are interesting and I would give it try. My one and only game went 6 turns.
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Steven
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I agree with Will and Tom. Although you have some neat ideas, it might be simpler to just increase the VP cap if you feel the game is ending to early? The Gunpowder rules seem, to be frank, extravagant and needlessly complicated? That is a lot of rules to add from the result of one chance die roll.

And Tom six turns for your first game is very good! Who won?
 
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Sean McKenzie
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OK. So I'll say forget Gunpowder plot and HRE Religious preference.

In the few games I have that have gone long, and in some short ones, patronage/science vp are exhausted. Science especially can go quickly. For Patronage I have seen nothing but ones left quickly, or only ones left quickly.

Also military/religious, plot victories still end the game, so just raising the VP total is not enough.
 
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Jon G
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Another approach to consider for the gunpowder plot is to treat it as a major catholic rebellion, but not a full reversal. This will have consequences that strengthen Spain and weaken England, and also allows further gunpowder plot attempts for 1 CVP if you wish.

For instance, If a gunpowder plot succeeds, award 1 CVP, and implement the 3-hit effect (6 conversions followed by a 4cp rebellion).

I think the conversions + rebellion is more interesting, since it works within the game mechanics (if the game is to keep going), makes for very interesting diplomacy, and gives Spain a board position reward in the continuing game. In compensation for that, I would only award 1CVP for a successful rebellion, rather than two.

Do I understand correctly that a player who stays at 25vp's or above gets an additional CVP each turn?
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Sean McKenzie
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>Do I understand correctly that a player who stays at 25vp's or above gets an additional CVP each turn?<

Yes, my idea is that for each condition fulfilled in the end phase you get a CVP.

Yes, I think the plot should be followed with the rebellion at least.

My idea was one succesful plot would earn a VP each turn thereafter for Spain, and I think treating just like any other Victory Condition is OK.

There is the problem of once the plot succeeds England no longer needs to defend. I think at a minimum I keep the Enland will lose a VP for a succesful plot.
 
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Sean McKenzie
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Wll I finished my first game.

Prots got domination and 25 vp on T4 for 3 cvp

End of T6 prots had 6 cvp and HRE 2 and so I ended it.

Fairly interesting from the perspective of playing a regular game.

Prots did a lot of patronage and military never got protestant spaces above 32. They held paris T4 and T5. Hitherto the only prot victory I had was a rel auto win in one of the first games.

HRE turned on Otts when they were at war with spain took Buda/Belgrade. Had taen Milan from Spain. Otts held Naples&Genoa. Spain eventually took Tunis/algiers and then Metz/paris when catholic league formed.

The rules i used are posted below.
 
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Sean McKenzie
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Mega Virgin Queen


The game is played as normal but players will earn Campaign Victory Points (CVP), and victory will be determined at the end of Turn 7 with the winner being the one with most CVP, ties go to the player who was the first among those tied to gain a CVP, next to the one who earned the most CVP on the last turn of the game, next to the highest VP total at game end with tie breakers for that determined as per the rules.

The first player to achieve any victory condition receives 2 CVP and a Card Draw and a treasure. If this occurs in the Victory Determination Phase these will be the only CVP, cards, treasures awarded in that Victory Determination Phase. It is possible for the same player to achieve both 25 VP and Domination in the same Victory Determination Phase, in which case he gets 3 CVP a card draw and a treasure, and then his choice of a card draw or treasure.
After that:

In each Victory Determination Phase a player will receive 1 CVP for each Victory Condition Fulfilled at that time.

Religious Autowin, Military Autowin, Domination, and 25+ VP win, Gun Powder plot (see below).

All players who have their military auto win get 1 CVP, only 1 player per turn can get Religious, Domination, 25+ VP. The player who gets Domination must also get 25+ VP if both are awarded. i.e. A player with 25+ VP and 5 VP more than any other player would fulfill both Victory Conditions and get 2 CVP; only 1 player may claim the 25+ VP CVP, and tie breakers are determined as normal.

For each Victory Condition you have fulfilled at this time you get either a card draw or a treasure, player’s choice.

So if all 6 players have a Military Victory, 1 has a Religious Autowin, 1 has 25+VP and Domination, and Spain succeeded in a Gunpowder Plot (see below), up to 10 CVP could be awarded in a single Victory Determination phase. (based on the distribution of keys, it is not possible in a 6 player game for all 6 layers to fulfill their military Victory Condition, but in the case of other variants etc, this will be the rule).

Gun Powder Plot:

Spain gains 2 CVP if this is the first Victory Condition anyone achieved as per above, England loses 1 CVP regardless.
Spain will gain 1 VP in each subsequent Victory Determination Phase, as well as a card draw or treasure, like any other victory condition.

When the plot succeeds, Spain takes it’s card or treasure from the English hand if the English have anything available; if England has none Spain may Draw from the deck.



Spain resolves 6 Catholic Conversions followed by a 4 CP rebellion in England.

Patronage
Countermix limitations for 3 VP awards remain in force.

A 2 VP award may be indicated by placing the artist face down on the Power card, when the 2 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted.

A 1 VP award may be indicated by placing the artist face up on the Power card, when the 1 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted.

Once the 1 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted, all Patronage DR’s are subject to a -1 DRM.

Science

A 2 VP award may be indicated by placing the Scientist face down on the Power card, when the 2 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted.

A 1 VP award may be indicated by placing the artist face down on the Power card, when the 1 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted.

Once the 1 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted, all Science DR’s are subject to a -1 DRM. Also, Once the 1 VP awards from the countermix have been exhausted, if a player is eligible for a Science Bonus, but can not choose any of the available bonuses, he must choose to take a VP/2VP when that is the option, but when there is no option for a VP he gets a 1 cp treasure, use any convenient marker to indicate this.
 
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