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Subject: We will see an updated edition of the rulebook? rss

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Ian Borrows
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I've recently been wondering if the rule book will be updated to incorporate errata but also as a chance to update the graphics. I have several new pages that came with either AoO or somesuch release (e.g. page 10A of section B) and the graphics in examples are modern, clear and clean whilst the old ones use the old map boards and seem muddy and very retro.

So a question for MMP, are you likely to update the rule book anytime soon, I for one would buy a newer, more polished edition.

 
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Mattias Elfström
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I would buy an updated rule book. I would also buy a PDF rule book, a hard bound rule book and a complete set of full colour counters :-)
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Eric Lai
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They plan to release a PDF version of the rulebook (finally!), it will be easy to insert errata then.
 
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Klas Malmstrom
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Garfink wrote:
They plan to release a PDF version of the rulebook (finally!), it will be easy to insert errata then.

An electronic version is in the works, not sure that PDF has been announced as the format though.
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Pierce Ostrander
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Mattias wrote:
I would buy an updated rule book. I would also buy a PDF rule book, a hard bound rule book and a complete set of full colour counters :-)


How about a complete new set of geomorph boards with larger hexes?
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Stephen Stewart
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Biosphere wrote:
I've recently been wondering if the rule book will be updated to incorporate errata but also as a chance to update the graphics. I have several new pages that came with either AoO or somesuch release (e.g. page 10A of section B) and the graphics in examples are modern, clear and clean whilst the old ones use the old map boards and seem muddy and very retro.

So a question for MMP, are you likely to update the rule book anytime soon, I for one would buy a newer, more polished edition.



ISN'T that the point of a binder?

Otherwise, I'd rather have it in hardback...

We don't need 6th Ed ASL...Just the replacement pages. Let someone else perform the artwork independant of MMP... it'll save you about $100
 
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klasmalmstrom wrote:
Garfink wrote:
They plan to release a PDF version of the rulebook (finally!), it will be easy to insert errata then.

An electronic version is in the works, not sure that PDF has been announced as the format though.


I REALLY hope it will be an actual eBook and not a PDF.

I think the ideal situation would be to create a subscription service for the Rulebook. Pay $5-$10 per month, and whenever official errata are issued, your eReader automatically downloads the updated rules text. You thus seamlessly always have an up-to-date edition.
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Klas Malmstrom
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ASLChampion wrote:
ISN'T that the point of a binder?

It was the initial point as envisioned by Avalon Hill, but not even they managed to release replacement pages for all errata that was published.
 
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Klas Malmstrom
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ASLNoob wrote:
No, they get all secretive and refuse to answer if you ask any questions about the format, the pricing, the schedule or even what will be included.

Maybe the format hasn't been decided yet? I know the basic text-proofing is going on.

I do seem to rememeber reading somewhere that Chapters A-E was to be included, but I could be remembering wrong.
 
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Let's tone down the negativity. Roll low and play ASL. arrrh
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Klas Malmstrom
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ASLNoob wrote:
Chapters A-E? Great! So it would start right out incomplete. I'm playing a PTO scenario and I'm using my spiffy new Official Electronic Rulebook but I have to keep a paper copy of Chapter G at hand?

Well, it was only something I thought I'd remember reading somewhere, so don't take it as the absolute truth.
 
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Robin Reeve
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ASLNoob wrote:
Seriously? If you owned a business and decided to embark on a new project like this, wouldn't you first decide on basic things like format, distribution and pricing before you actually started work?
If we players don't know the final format, MMP surely know what they are aiming at.
 
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Robin Reeve
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ASLNoob wrote:
One man's negativity is another man's righteous indignation!
Does systematic bashing and slander belong to "righteous" indignation?
Your indignation is based on nothing except empty, hostile speculations.
As it is not the first time that you send accusations flying with no proof, I presume we should get used to it - I still cannot.
 
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Martin Vicca
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I'm not surprised they have not settled upon a format yet. The field of ebooks is changing so quickly just now that for something not to be published for two to three years they will wait and see what the market is at that time. B&W or full colour? Using flash for examples or .dead. Paper? So many choices to be made but the basis text can be dealt with just now.
 
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Ian Borrows
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When I posted this thread I hoped that the new employee of MMP who is to communicate with their customers more often and more effectively (exuse for not remembering his name or where the thread is on BGG) might post something here.

I posted my question as I think the rulebook could do with an update and now I read that there are plans afoot to create an e-book version is good news indeed. However, my enthusiasm for this is tempered by the fact MMP are fantastically slow at getting new or old ASL games out and being an ASLer requires a great deal of patience. I look forward to a revamp or new format for the rulebook and it would be good to hear from someone at MMP on this, there seems to be a fair bit of activity for ASL here on BGG so I'm hoping they see it as a worthwhile place to call on and answer questions.

I also feel the need to back up Pup as he was not bashing MMP any more than I am bashing them for saying they are slow.
 
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Robin Reeve
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For years, players were complaining that MMP did not produce an eASLRB.
Now MMP say they are working on an eASLRB project.
Some players still find reasons to go on complaining.

Aren't we a bunch of spoiled kids?shake

BTW, if Chas Argent does not post here often, there is a very clear reason: he got a nasty bashing when answering complaints about the map bundle.
Why should he waste time in a forum where the usual suspects will jump at MMP, whatever they say or do?
If you want news, go on CSW and GS forums.

And, about the eASLRB, about 70 players offered to help proofing the text.
I think it is quite a safe bet to believe that those who are complaining about the eASLRB on this thread were not among those volunteers.
 
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Martin Vicca
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ASLNoob wrote:
Vinnie37 wrote:
I'm not surprised they have not settled upon a format yet. The field of ebooks is changing so quickly just now that for something not to be published for two to three years they will wait and see what the market is at that time. B&W or full colour? Using flash for examples or .dead. Paper? So many choices to be made but the basis text can be dealt with just now.

One friend and I, working together in our free time, scanned, OCRed, proofread and formatted Chapters A thru G and the Index in a couple of weeks. At that point it our "digital Rulebook" was basic but complete. Adding internal links would take another couple of weeks but we decided against it.

It's hard to imagine why a project like this would "not to be published for two to three years". Two or three guys working part time could have it done in a month easy.


To make a "quick'n'dirty" scanned and OCR'd copy of the RB is easy. Especially if you are not concerned about the formatting and look of the thing. MMP will be looking to sell this item for a considerable sum of money (I reckon maybe $5 less than the paper one)so need to do a good job on it. Luckily, they have a history of not doing good jobs but great ones when it comes to their products.
I'm working on an eASLRB myself and the amount of work and cross checking is immense. I'm trying to get one that is useable and allows me to track queries down faster than using the paper book. I'm not even starting from scratch but from an existing one and it's occupied me for a good few years...
 
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Dave Terhune
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This is a blatant example of frivolous geek gold spending.
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I spent 100 geek gold and all I got was this lousy overtext.
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ASLNoob wrote:
I'm not trying to toot my own horn here. I just want to make the point that creating a digital version of the ASL rulebook is not a massive project that will require years of effort. Far from it.

So you've already made all the cross-references and index entries into hyperlinks? And you've double-checked every single one to make sure they're correct? Appearance isn't everything. Useability is more important. And that does take time.
 
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Martin Vicca
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Good job, but if it's just the words, it lacks the useability that we would expect the MMP version to contain.



This is my paltry attempt. The blue words are hyper links to both sections of the RB and defined terms within the section.

Never posted a pic before so this may not work...
 
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Mark Sockwell
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fubar awol wrote:
Mattias wrote:
I would buy an updated rule book. I would also buy a PDF rule book, a hard bound rule book and a complete set of full colour counters :-)


How about a complete new set of geomorph boards with larger hexes?



Some people don't really need them, do they???

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dachda
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I don't understand why people think MMP should release information about a project that is not yet complete. Do you guys, demand other companies do the same? No company releases info on a new product until they are sure it is viable and they can be certain the features they do discuss will be in the final version of the product. Doing so ends up seeming as promises which may not be deliverable in a final product, especially with an IT project. Plus it is quite likely that many of the things you wish to know have not even been decided upon by MMP.

Besides, if all you guys have already created your own eASLRB why do you even care if MMP releases one? It is easy enough to add the errata to your own eASLRB (I've done it myself) so you've already got what you say MMP should do. Crank out a RB in a few weeks and call it good.
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Vin Maresca
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And, about the eASLRB, about 70 players offered to help proofing the text.

I am one of the volunteer proof readers and we are chugging along. I don't know anything about final formatt, price, etc. but will be worth whatever MMP asks for it! This is my way to give something back to the hobby
 
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dachda
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ASLNoob wrote:

The primary reason I feel that MMP should be more forthcoming about the details of the digital rulebook project is because they called out to the community for volunteers. Once they ask people to volunteer their time I think they are obligated to provide some information about the project.


I just don’t understand why you think MMP should release info about a product that is not complete. No other company would do so, why should or would MMP? I think the key point is one you mention in your post when you called MMP a "private company". That alone means they've absolutely no obligation to release any information about any product if that is how they believe it is best to run their business.

When I've helped test software and played a couple of alpha versions of computer games, I had to sign a NDA because I was exposed to info the company wanted kept secret until the product was ready for release. I was a volunteer for the game testing, should those computer game companies have released private information concerning their game simply because volunteers helped test it? I also have volunteered to help MMP proofread upcoming ASL projects. MMP did not have me sign a NDA but protect their information by not telling me their private business plan for those products. That just seems like common business sense. No company will release information before it suits their business plan.

Please don't take this as a criticism, I'm just trying to understand your viewpoint, because it is very different from mine.
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Robin Reeve
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@ASLNoob/Pup:

Are you able to do something else than bash MMP?
It is not strange that many ASLers do lend a hand to MMP: their hobby is a question of enthousiasm.

MMP is not a major company.
It is a bunch of ASL fans doing their best to keep the game afloat and progress.

If you stopped criticizing and did implicate yourself, you would contribute to progress.
But just complaining on and on is totally useless and, I believe, counterproductive.

You don't like my criticism about your rants... But reckon that you are not helping by your behaviour.
And, as a last word, only you have made a direct slandering attack against me, calling me a liar without ever retracting your calomnious accusation.
I only oppose your behaviour and arguments. No PA.
 
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Martin Vicca
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I thought long and hard about volunteering to help with the MMP eASLRB but decided not to. The temptation to "steal" their text to help with my own project would have just been too great
I don't expect to see anything concrete from MMP for at least two years. They may surprise me but there are so many changes coming with regard to mobile devices that I think they would be well advised to hold it back until the technology becomes more standard.
 
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