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Subject: Dwarves: Points for Tunnelling rss

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A Brave New Geek
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Hi All,

I had a look in the rules though wanted to know.... Does the Dwarf player get points for tunnelling when they pay for a tunnel and just build a dwelling (obviously on their home turf) without terraforming?

The rules state during the "Terraform and build" so I just wanted to clarify this as I just scored and awful load of points with the dwarves by tunnelling and building without terraforming....

Thanks!

ABNG
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Helge Ostertag
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Yes,

he gets points for tunneling

EDIT:when taking the terraform and/or build (a dwelling) action.

So for:
a) when he tunnels + terraforms + builds
or
b) when he just tunnels + builds
or
c)when he just tunnels + terraforms


So c) could be an option to consider in the last round (or when the scoring for spades appears), but usually the Dwarves have an interest in building a dwelling as well...
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A Brave New Geek
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Thanks Helge!

Brilliant game by the way - magical, head-swim, endorphin release in cardboard form.

There are so many games out these days, I hope it gets all the recognition it deserves.

Just 5 of the races left for us to try........



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Mike Stevens
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abravenewgeek wrote:
Hi All,

I had a look in the rules though wanted to know.... Does the Dwarf player get points for tunnelling when they pay for a tunnel and just build a dwelling (obviously on their home turf) without terraforming?

The rules state during the "Terraform and build" so I just wanted to clarify this as I just scored and awful load of points with the dwarves by tunnelling and building without terraforming....

Thanks!

ABNG


Are the Dwarves different than the Halflings? I played with the Halflings and I saw the symbol on my board for 1 VP for everytime I use a Spade. I did not see anything about Tunneling, nor did the guy teaching us the game mention anything about my Halflings Tunneling? I know there is another Race on the backside of the player board but I never looked at it.

Oh well, even if I missed something, I still won the game and this was by far my FAVORITE new game at the BGG Con and I can't wait till I can get my own copy. The game is just brilliant and I think there is very little luck involved.
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A Brave New Geek
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The halflings and dwarves are different Mike - have a look in the images section for all the player boards and you can always look in pdf of the rules to explain all their special powers.

You need to play this again! And again, and again....

The only luck in the game is which tiles are selected at the beginning of the game, who you are sitting next to and who is the first starting player.

After that..... there is no luck as far as I can see.
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richard sivel
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Quote:
Yes,

he gets points for tunneling
a) when he tunnels + terraforms + builds
or
b) when he just tunnels + builds.



Yesterday I played the dwarves for the first time. It was even the first time in our group that the dwarves were played. -- After some turns, I re-read the rules and I understood them in a way that in in addition to a) and b) above, the dwarves would get points for:

c) tunneling + terraforming
d) tunneling into gray terrain (without terraforming (obivously) and without building).

Needless to say that d) is a real VP generator! --- Maybe the rules should be clarified a bit on that point?


Great game!
 
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Evil Roy
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rsivel wrote:
Quote:
Yes,

he gets points for tunneling
a) when he tunnels + terraforms + builds
or
b) when he just tunnels + builds.



Yesterday I played the dwarves for the first time. It was even the first time in our group that the dwarves were played. -- After some turns, I re-read the rules and I understood them in a way that in in addition to a) and b) above, the dwarves would get points for:

c) tunneling + terraforming
d) tunneling into gray terrain (without terraforming (obivously) and without building).

Needless to say that d) is a real VP generator! --- Maybe the rules should be clarified a bit on that point?


Your option d is certainly not legal. Tunneling involves taking the Transform and Build action but you cannot take this action without either terraforming or building.
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richard sivel
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Quote:
Your option d is certainly not legal. Tunneling involves taking the Transform and Build action but you cannot take this action without either terraforming or building.


Good point! -- And I am happy that you made it. It would have been just too absurd and easy if I were correct.
 
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Thorsten G.
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Hello Richard & Evil Roy,

the rules state that with the action "Transform and Build" (TB) you may 1.) Transform a tile AND / OR
2.) Build a dwelling

So it is legal to Transform OR Build OR Transform & Build.

The real question is: Do you get the VP if you are transforming and NOT building a new dwelling. From the rules (p. 16) I would state "yes". From the author's answer (post #2) I would state "no" - you also need to build a dwelling.

If the latter is correct, IMO the rules should be clarified.

The same question is about the Fakirs.
 
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Juho Snellman
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rsivel wrote:
Quote:
Your option d is certainly not legal. Tunneling involves taking the Transform and Build action but you cannot take this action without either terraforming or building.


Good point! -- And I am happy that you made it. It would have been just too absurd and easy if I were correct. :)

There's not that big a difference between your cases c) and d). With c) you get basically the same effect as d) just by breaking your transform + build action into as many pieces as possible. So always transform terrain one step at a time rather than by going to the home terrain, always split the transforming and building into two parts.
 
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Helge Ostertag
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I have edited my answer (see above) and it is the same for the Fakirs, so options a), b) and c) will give you VP's.
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Bob Rademaker
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Related question: Can the dwarves tunnel and build (for 4 VP) on a mountain hex which is already directly adjacent to an existing Dwarven structure?
 
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Juho Snellman
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Thorwolf wrote:
Related question: Can the dwarves tunnel and build (for 4 VP) on a mountain hex which is already directly adjacent to an existing Dwarven structure?

No. (There's an official answer in another thread).
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Ramirez Kyogen
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When a player does option c as his first action:

c) Tunnel and terraform

He receives the 4 victory points, but does he get an additional 4 vp if he does the following action in his next turn?

Tunnel and build at the spot which he previous tunneled and only terraformed?

Meaning he separated it in two actions, paying x workers (depending on SH in play) for tunneling and thus getting 8 VP in total.
 
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Georg D.
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yes you can split it. As long as you pay your workers each action you will get your 4vp multiple times.
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Paule Panther
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In my opinion, if he does so, he tunnels two times, so he has to pay 2/4 workers for the tunnels and not 1/2.

We had another question: Is it possible to tunnel a field which you can reach without a tunnel? If you have build two fields in a row and want to built/terraform the third field in this row. May you tunnel from field 1 to field 3, even if you can reach field 3 directly from field 2?
 
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Paule Panther
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Found the answer for my question:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/10385365#10385365

It is not allowed to get 4 VP for this: A__B ---> AC_B (tunnel from B is not possible)
 
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Daniel Andersson
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Assuming the Dwarves have their Stronghold out and their digging is upgraded so that each spade costs 1 worker;
I can first tunnel and transform a forest or wasteland hex two spaces away by paying 2 workers and get 4 VP. On my next turn I can take another transform and build action to build a dwelling on the same hex as I transformed last turn, paying 2 workers and 2 coins and gaining 4VP. Is this correct?

Could I also transform a mountain into a wasteland, paying 2 workers and gaining 4 VP, then on the next turn transform it back into mountain paying 2 workers gaining 4 VP and just continue like that? That means that you will get 4 VP for every two workers you have, which seems a bit too good to be true. And not very flavorful...
 
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Helge Ostertag
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Ramirez_Kyogen wrote:


Meaning he separated it in two actions, paying x workers (depending on SH in play) for tunneling and thus getting 8 VP in total.


Yes, then a player would get 8 VP in total.
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Zachary McDaniel
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Just ran into this in a game myself. We just looked at all the symbols all over the game and decided that the symbol for "Build a Settlement" was in both the bottom right corner of the Dwarves' board, as well as their stronghold bonus.

It wasn't a terraform symbol; it was the consistent "downward black arrow = build X action", which is used all over the place to indicate other functionality. We thought it would be really odd if this was the ONE exception.

If they could get points for just terraforming one hex away, why wouldn't it just have the shovel?
 
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Daniel Honig
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The "terraform and/or build" action is one action, on line 1 of the reference card. When you take that action you may terraform, then you may build.

If you choose to not build (for example, because you can only partially terraform or you don't want to spend the extra workers/money for a dwelling yet), you have taken the action. If you choose not to terraform (because the destination space is OK), you have taken the action.

If you spend an extra worker (or two) and hop a space, you get 4 points when you take the action.
 
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