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Subject: Lady of the Lake? rss

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Christopher Paul
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I played a couple of games of The Resistance last night (and LOVED it!) and have been looking over all the threads today to see the differences between Avalon and the original. The only thing I can't find is exactly how the Lady of the Lake works. I see that it's used during rounds 2, 3 and 4. Also, you get to see someone's card, and then pass them the token.

But who gets this token first?
 
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mfl134
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crunk_posby wrote:
I played a couple of games of The Resistance last night (and LOVED it!) and have been looking over all the threads today to see the differences between Avalon and the original. The only thing I can't find is exactly how the Lady of the Lake works. I see that it's used during rounds 2, 3 and 4. Also, you get to see someone's card, and then pass them the token.

But who gets this token first?


The person to the right of the initial leader start with it. (It doesn't really matter where it starts though.)
 
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Robert Stewart
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mfl134 wrote:
crunk_posby wrote:
I played a couple of games of The Resistance last night (and LOVED it!) and have been looking over all the threads today to see the differences between Avalon and the original. The only thing I can't find is exactly how the Lady of the Lake works. I see that it's used during rounds 2, 3 and 4. Also, you get to see someone's card, and then pass them the token.

But who gets this token first?


The person to the right of the initial leader start with it. (It doesn't really matter where it starts though.)


In other words, it starts with the player who's last in line to get a turn as leader.
 
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Jesse Chapman
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It doesn't look like this is explicitly stated in the rules, but I assume that the Lady of the Lake token moves each round just like the leader token? It's always on person to the right, right?
 
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Simon Kamber
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waitreally wrote:
It doesn't look like this is explicitly stated in the rules, but I assume that the Lady of the Lake token moves each round just like the leader token? It's always on person to the right, right?

Huh? As I understand it, it moves when it is used, to the player it is used on.
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Robert Stewart
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Dulkal wrote:
waitreally wrote:
It doesn't look like this is explicitly stated in the rules, but I assume that the Lady of the Lake token moves each round just like the leader token? It's always on person to the right, right?

Huh? As I understand it, it moves when it is used, to the player it is used on.


Agreed. The player who starts with Lady of the Lake hangs onto it until just after the second quest, when they use it to discover another player's allegiance, at which point that other player inherits the token to use after the third quest, passing it to the person they check for use after the fourth quest. In each case, you have to choose someone who hasn't already held the token.

There's not much point to having it for the fifth quest - after the fifth quest, either Mordred's minions have already won, or it's up to the Assassin to try to guess Merlin, knowing which side everyone's on anyway (unless Oberon is in play, of course - in which case a Minion has a slim chance of identifying Oberon by checking someone they don't know is evil)

What my group does to use Lady of the Lake is to hand the token and the two signalling cards to the target player, they hand one card back, the person who had the token looks at it and hands it back - so, except briefly, the two cards and the token are always together.
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Neil Logan
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Hi, I've just bought this game (I have hand 1st edition of Resistance) and I was just reading over this forum.

Isn't there a slight flaw in that if the Assassin somehow has the token and looks at a character card and that character is Merlin, the game is over as the spies will win regardless? This could happen after the 2nd round which would void the majority of the game.

Are there rules or suggestions that say not to use all these different roles at the same time?
 
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James Cheng
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Logan8 wrote:
Hi, I've just bought this game (I have hand 1st edition of Resistance) and I was just reading over this forum.

Isn't there a slight flaw in that if the Assassin somehow has the token and looks at a character card and that character is Merlin, the game is over as the spies will win regardless? This could happen after the 2nd round which would void the majority of the game.

Are there rules or suggestions that say not to use all these different roles at the same time?


With Avalon comes two cards, one red and one blue. When you get "lady"-ed, you don't show them your character card, just the red OR blue card.

Enjoy the game!
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Clyde W
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You can do this with voting chits too.
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Al Washburn
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eunoia wrote:

With Avalon comes two cards, one red and one blue. When you get "lady"-ed, you don't show them your character card, just the red OR blue card.

Enjoy the game!


New to the game late to the party...is the implication here that you show them you faction but not your role and that's why you get a red or blue card...or are the situations where you're allowed to lie?

Thanks!
 
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Alabaster
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ayedub wrote:
eunoia wrote:

With Avalon comes two cards, one red and one blue. When you get "lady"-ed, you don't show them your character card, just the red OR blue card.

Enjoy the game!


New to the game late to the party...is the implication here that you show them you faction but not your role and that's why you get a red or blue card...or are the situations where you're allowed to lie?

Thanks!

You just reveal what side you're on, and not your specific role.
There's no ability to lie during these reveals.
 
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Al Washburn
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Vanderscamp wrote:

You just reveal what side you're on, and not your specific role.
There's no ability to lie during these reveals.


Perfect, thanks much!
 
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Jeremy Espinosa
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Vanderscamp wrote:
ayedub wrote:
eunoia wrote:

With Avalon comes two cards, one red and one blue. When you get "lady"-ed, you don't show them your character card, just the red OR blue card.

Enjoy the game!


New to the game late to the party...is the implication here that you show them you faction but not your role and that's why you get a red or blue card...or are the situations where you're allowed to lie?

Thanks!

You just reveal what side you're on, and not your specific role.
There's no ability to lie during these reveals.


The person who receives the Lady of Lake must hand over the correct card revealing what side they are on. However since no one else sees the card both players can lie about what happened as long as they don't show the card to back up their statement. At any time anyone can make a claim and lie about being good or bad.
 
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Robert Stewart
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Rediknight wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
ayedub wrote:
eunoia wrote:

With Avalon comes two cards, one red and one blue. When you get "lady"-ed, you don't show them your character card, just the red OR blue card.

Enjoy the game!


New to the game late to the party...is the implication here that you show them you faction but not your role and that's why you get a red or blue card...or are the situations where you're allowed to lie?

Thanks!

You just reveal what side you're on, and not your specific role.
There's no ability to lie during these reveals.


The person who receives the Lady of Lake must hand over the correct card revealing what side they are on. However since no one else sees the card both players can lie about what happened as long as they don't show the card to back up their statement. At any time anyone can make a claim and lie about being good or bad.


It's another example of the game relying on player honesty to make the mechanics work while encouraging player deceit and deception to keep the gameplay interesting. You are required to show the correct card, but not to be honest about which card you showed, nor which you were shown...
 
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Mark Turner
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What does lady of the lake do exactly?
 
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Neil Logan
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MrMT wrote:
What does lady of the lake do exactly?


(I can't remember the exact timing of all this, I think it happens at the end of rounds 2, 3 and 4 but hopefully this will give you the general idea)

It lets you see another player's alignment. You do not look at their character card; the game comes with a red card and a blue card.

The person with the Lady of the Lake asks another player to see their alignment, who then hands an alignment card face down (with their actual alignment; no lying at this point) to the person with the Lady of the Lake. The person who revealed their alignment then gets the Lady of the Lake token and will get to ask someone else (they can't ask the person they got the token from) for their alignment. This happens at the end of rounds 2, 3 and 4.

As with all revealed information, the person looking at the alignment card is free to say whatever they want as no one else has seen the card.
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Robert Stewart
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Essentially, the Lady of the Lake reproduces the "chain of trust" effect of Overheard Conversation, Establish Confidence, and Open Up plot cards - it gives logical thinkers some hard data to digest rather than effectively restricting the game to people who are better at social deduction.
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Derek Thompson
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rmsgrey wrote:
Essentially, the Lady of the Lake reproduces the "chain of trust" effect of Overheard Conversation, Establish Confidence, and Open Up plot cards - it gives logical thinkers some hard data to digest rather than effectively restricting the game to people who are better at social deduction.


Fair, but good logical thinkers shouldn't need 'hard data'. Once some fail cards are played, intersections of sets of players should lead to some surefire logical deductions. It won't lead to perfect complete deductions, and furthermore if it did, the game would kinda suck.
 
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Robert Stewart
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aldaryn wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
Essentially, the Lady of the Lake reproduces the "chain of trust" effect of Overheard Conversation, Establish Confidence, and Open Up plot cards - it gives logical thinkers some hard data to digest rather than effectively restricting the game to people who are better at social deduction.


Fair, but good logical thinkers shouldn't need 'hard data'. Once some fail cards are played, intersections of sets of players should lead to some surefire logical deductions. It won't lead to perfect complete deductions, and furthermore if it did, the game would kinda suck.


Two, possibly overlapping, subsets of the players, each of which contains at least one bad guy is nowhere near enough hard data to draw any conclusions - to even start to get any solid conclusions, you need to be getting Bayesian with the voting records...
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Clyde W
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Good spies will ensure there is no hard data in fails, proposals and votes. The game relies on reads as well. Plot cards aren't needed.
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Robert Stewart
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clydeiii wrote:
Good spies will ensure there is no hard data in fails, proposals and votes. The game relies on reads as well. Plot cards aren't needed.


I don't care how good the bad guys are, a fail is hard data - it shows that there was at least one bad guy on the team. Proposals and votes may be statistically independent of who the bad guys are, but fails cannot be.

Okay, when the team size equals the number of good guys, a good guy not on the team learns nothing from a single fail (well, maybe a tentative reduction in the probability that there were two bad guys on the team) but the good guys on the team learn something...
 
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Clyde W
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Very true. And imagine a scenario in which the score is 0-2 and you get to M3.5. At that point, either that player is cleared or the spies have won. That is the best form of hard data.
 
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