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Subject: Quick Questions about Rules Wording and Discrepancies rss

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David Briel
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edit-- Here is a conglomerate summary of the questions posed in this thread for those who don't want to sift through the whole thing.
This is an unofficial rules errata if you will:

1. The tires wear in the rules says 12 or 16 points of damage (16 from 1930 onward) but there are 18 boxes on the Car Status sheet. 16 makes more sense since it is 4 points per tire. Is it 16 points for 1930 onward or 18?

I don't know how many people tested it...but this really is a FAIL yes, this should be 16...and the worst thing is we put 18 boxes in our ongoing game update....what a shame....

2. On the last example for Acceleration (page 14) it says, "He must stop or his car will suffer 1 damage point to the engine for each subsequent moving turn and must wait for 4 turns to cool the engine down." Is that supposed to be wait for 3 turns? I think that is just a misprint based on the Overheating rules section but wanted to clarify.

Correct, it should be 3 turns. During the tests we reduced the repairing times and fixed all the entries in the rules...well...not ALL the entries.

3. Also, does the weather modifier of +1 continue to accrue? For example, in stage 1 I rolled a 6, so it is raining. For stage 2, if I roll a 4 it is still raining. On the next stage would it be raining on a roll of +2 (so rolling 3, 4, 5, 6)?

No, it does not. If the previous stage was wet, add the +1 modifier. That's it, the modifier remains the same.

4. I am a little confused about the usage of the words "turns" and "curves" in the rules. Turns usually means a player's turn or "one game sequence" but it is sometimes used to mean a curve as well.

Hmmm...we tried to be very clear about this in English: turn exactly is "one game sequence" and curve a "non-straight stretch of the track". I've double checked the rules and I've seen the issue is just in the Example in the NOTE ON DRIFTING section: "John approaches a 3 turn space..." should be "3 curve space". And again, on the same line TURN TABLE should be CURVE TABLE.

5. At the end of the example for drifting (top of page 16) it says "this will be his speed for the rest of his current turn." Does turn in this case mean the curve he is in or just this single game sequence?

....just this single game sequence. The meaning here is that if after the speed reduction you still have any movement point available, you can re-enter on track and keep on moving.

6. I think there is a minor error in the Time Calculation example: It says, "So, he finishes his Racing Time writing 18m and 7s. The 7 seconds was from the decimal before being multiplied (again by 60) with a final time of 4 seconds (which it later correctly says in the example).

That's correct, typo.

7. Just for my own complete and accurate curiosity, I received the Chrysler Type 72 promo car card. Do you know what year(s) that car was raced in the 1000 Miglia? It says on the provided information card that it was used in 1928 but other years are not mentioned. I was just curious. Some information I could find online said it was raced in 1928 and 1929 then (I think) a Sports model was used in 1930.

Type 72 raced in the 1928 edition only, while in 1929 the Italian Chrysler retailer selected the Type 75 for the race and in 1930 the Type 77. Even if between the 3 models there were only minor differences, we decided to use the Type 72 because its driver, Baroness d'Avanzo was the first woman to race the 1000 Miglia.

8. Headlights are on the Status Sheet as requiring 2 turns to replace. They are not available in the equipment list and are not really mentioned in the Parts Subject to Failure section (except in Alternator failure). Is that something you were going to add in but decided not to or is that something coming in later?

Humm...probably it would have been better to mention it in the rule book, but actually the thing is very easy: they had a bunch of headlamps in their pocket and they were one of the very few things those cars had in common with normal production ones...so in few words they were able to find a headlamp almost anywhere. Moreover Aerodynamics wasn't really applied on those years (that's why you don't find any slipstream rule!), so the big (and draggy) headlights were put in such a way to be safe from collisions (usually between the tires, close to the engine): usually they didn't get damaged, but in huge accidents.
Summing up, headlights got broken mostly for the headlamp failure so, in case you have just to stop by and change the headlamp. Another small curiosity: as you know, we've spent 4 years in historical research and interviews with actual drivers of those cars. It could sound funny, but almost all of them told us how tricky the headlamp change was: in fact a lot of cars had something on the headlights that made the replacement very tricky! Alfa 1750, for example, had a red plastic hemisphere on front of each headlamp, to make them more aerodynamically efficient (!): they were so hard to detach that this operation was done by a Technical Assistance Point only! Other cars, like the MG had a steel-wire-net to protect the headlights from debris (remember that most part of the track was not asphalted!)


9. On page 21, the setup for Stage 3 has the hexagon list as PP, CS3, TS1, CS1, TD2, CD1, PP. The picture of the course shows TD1 instead of TD2. I liked the pattern of using TD1 better and decided to use the picture instead of the text, but which is correct?

TD1 is the right one: it gives much more the feeling of the winding roads between Bologna and Florence.

10. Do the Technical Assistance Points where it takes half the time to repair, is that time rounded up or down? If something like the Timing Belt is to be replaced requiring 3 turns, would that be 1 or 2 turns at the Technical Assistance Points?

Always ROUND DOWN the repair timings at TAP (Technical Assistance Point)

11. Since the rules say, "Technical Assistance Points have all the necessary parts for repair." then I took that to mean that you do not have to use your own inventory for parts repair. Is that a correct interpretation?

Correct, you don't have to use your spares there: they got everything they need!

12. The rulebook has SP1 in the hexagon list but it is not shown in the picture. Is SP1 included?

SP1 is not included in Stage 15.

13. On drifting, other than just moving outside to a valid number is there any other penalty? It seems like that could be exploited in some conditions. Tile SP1 for example, if travelling at speed 5 into the 3,4,5 corner landing on 3 with Ideal Line (making it 4) would let me drift outside to a 5 and continue on from there at speed 5 rather then 4 (or 3). It's rare and not that advantageous but was just wondering.

The use of drifting you mention is absolutely correct: it can and it must be exploited! You can approach the curve aggressively and then drift outside: sometimes you can use this to put yourself in a better position for the next curve, for example, approaching a best line that otherwise you couldn't catch!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a few questions about the rules to make sure I understand them correctly and I found a couple of discrepancies I was hoping to clear up.

First, the tires wear in the rules says 12 or 16 points of damage (16 from 1930 onward) but there are 18 boxes on the Car Status sheet. 16 makes more sense since it is 4 points per tire. Is it 16 points for 1930 onward or 18?

On the last example for Acceleration (page 14) it says, "He must stop or his car will suffer 1 damage point to the engine for each subsequent moving turn and must wait for 4 turns to cool the engine down." Is that supposed to be wait for 3 turns? I think that is just a misprint based on the Overheating rules section but wanted to clarify.

Also, does the weather modifier of +1 continue to accrue? For example, in stage 1 I rolled a 6, so it is raining. For stage 2, if I roll a 4 it is still raining. On the next stage would it be raining on a roll of +2 (so rolling 3, 4, 5, 6)?

I am a little confused about the usage of the words "turns" and "curves" in the rules. Turns usually means a player's turn or "one game sequence" but it is sometimes used to mean a curve as well. At the end of the example for drifting (top of page 16) it says "this will be his speed for the rest of his current turn." Does turn in this case mean the curve he is in or just this single game sequence?

I think there is a minor error in the Time Calculation example: It says, "So, he finishes his Racing Time writing 18m and 7s. The 7 seconds was from the decimal before being multiplied (again by 60) with a final time of 4 seconds (which it later correctly says in the example).

And finally just for my own complete and accurate curiosity, I received the Chrysler Type 72 promo car card. Do you know what year(s) that car was raced in the 1000 Miglia? It says on the provided information card that it was used in 1928 but other years are not mentioned. I was just curious. Some information I could find online said it was raced in 1928 and 1929 then (I think) a Sports model was used in 1930.


Overall the rules are easy to understand and well written. The examples are very helpful.
 
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Carlo Amaddeo
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Hello David!

Nice questions, I answer below:


First, the tires wear in the rules says 12 or 16 points of damage (16 from 1930 onward) but there are 18 boxes on the Car Status sheet. 16 makes more sense since it is 4 points per tire. Is it 16 points for 1930 onward or 18?

I don't know how many people tested it...but this really is a FAIL yes, this should be 16...and the worst thing is we put 18 boxes in our ongoing game update....what a shame....cry


On the last example for Acceleration (page 14) it says, "He must stop or his car will suffer 1 damage point to the engine for each subsequent moving turn and must wait for 4 turns to cool the engine down." Is that supposed to be wait for 3 turns? I think that is just a misprint based on the Overheating rules section but wanted to clarify.

Correct, it should be 3 turns. During the tests we reduced the repairing times and fixed all the entries in the rules...well...not ALL the entries.

Also, does the weather modifier of +1 continue to accrue? For example, in stage 1 I rolled a 6, so it is raining. For stage 2, if I roll a 4 it is still raining. On the next stage would it be raining on a roll of +2 (so rolling 3, 4, 5, 6)?

No, it does not. If the previous stage was wet, add the +1 modifier. That's it, the modifier remains the same.

I am a little confused about the usage of the words "turns" and "curves" in the rules. Turns usually means a player's turn or "one game sequence" but it is sometimes used to mean a curve as well.

Hmmm...we tried to be very clear about this in English: turn exactly is "one game sequence" and curve a "non-straight stretch of the track". I've double checked the rules and I've seen the issue is just in the Example in the NOTE ON DRIFTING section: "John approaches a 3 turn space..." should be "3 curve space". And again, on the same line TURN TABLE should be CURVE TABLE.

At the end of the example for drifting (top of page 16) it says "this will be his speed for the rest of his current turn." Does turn in this case mean the curve he is in or just this single game sequence?

....just this single game sequence. The meaning here is that if after the speed reduction you still have any movement point available, you can re-enter on track and keep on moving.

I think there is a minor error in the Time Calculation example: It says, "So, he finishes his Racing Time writing 18m and 7s. The 7 seconds was from the decimal before being multiplied (again by 60) with a final time of 4 seconds (which it later correctly says in the example).

That's correct, typo.

And finally just for my own complete and accurate curiosity, I received the Chrysler Type 72 promo car card. Do you know what year(s) that car was raced in the 1000 Miglia? It says on the provided information card that it was used in 1928 but other years are not mentioned. I was just curious. Some information I could find online said it was raced in 1928 and 1929 then (I think) a Sports model was used in 1930.

Type 72 raced in the 1928 edition only, while in 1929 the Italian Chrysler retailer selected the Type 75 for the race and in 1930 the Type 77. Even if between the 3 models there were only minor differences, we decided to use the Type 72 because its driver, Baroness d'Avanzo was the first woman to race the 1000 Miglia.


I thank you very much for your remarks and, as always, I strongly encourage to raise questions, errors, doubts and whatever can help us to improve our game and, consequently, your game experience! laugh
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Thank you very much for the succinct answers and clarifications. thumbsup I have only played the first 2 stages so far (solo) and enjoyed it very much. I plan to play another 2 - 3 stages tonight and it looks like the course gets much harder at this point. I chose the Alfa Romeo RL SS MM which has performed well so far but it's still too early to tell.


The rules also mention being able to compare your times to the actual race times. Is that information available online somewhere? I think it would be interesting to see if my times are anywhere close to what the actual race times were. It would also be fun for people to post their own times online somewhere and compare results among current players as well. Rallyman (www.rallyman.fr) has a pretty good system for this for their game.

I had another quick question too that has not come up in my game yet but headlights are on the Status Sheet as requiring 2 turns to replace. They are not available in the equipment list and are not really mentioned in the Parts Subject to Failure section (except in Alternator failure). Is that something you were going to add in but decided not to or is that something coming in later?

Thank you again, Carlo!
 
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Carlo Amaddeo
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Hey David, since you like them I keep on answering you the same way laugh

I chose the Alfa Romeo RL SS MM which has performed well so far but it's still too early to tell.

The Alfa RL SS Mille Miglia was EXACTLY the Alfa I was talking about in my last post, the one forced to retire 100 km away from the finish line! So beware! Ehehehe! (I'm just an OM fan, don't take it too personal )

The rules also mention being able to compare your times to the actual race times. Is that information available online somewhere?

We are working on our website (that's why it looks deadly frozen to October) to convert it into a blog: you will find soon a lot of info on each edition, on each stage and on each car of the game, as well as racing times, rankings, drivers...and so on! Unfortunately we are still a very small company and everything moves slow as drunken elephant modest Believe, we'll do everything we promised!

It would also be fun for people to post their own times online somewhere and compare results among current players as well.

I do agree, it's a nice suggestion for our site. In the meanwhile you can create a post in the game blog here on BGG!

I had another quick question too that has not come up in my game yet but headlights are on the Status Sheet as requiring 2 turns to replace. They are not available in the equipment list and are not really mentioned in the Parts Subject to Failure section (except in Alternator failure). Is that something you were going to add in but decided not to or is that something coming in later?

Humm...probably it would have been better to mention it in the rule book, but actually the thing is very easy: they had a bunch of headlamps in their pocket and they were one of the very few things those cars had in common with normal production ones...so in few words they were able to find a headlamp almost anywhere. Moreover Aerodynamics wasn't really applied on those years (that's why you don't find any slipstream rule!), so the big (and draggy) headlights were put in such a way to be safe from collisions (usually between the tires, close to the engine): usually they didn't get damaged, but in huge accidents.
Summing up, headlights got broken mostly for the headlamp failure so, in case you have just to stop by and change the headlamp. Another small curiosity: as you know, we've spent 4 years in historical research and interviews with actual drivers of those cars. It could sound funny, but almost all of them told us how tricky the headlamp change was: in fact a lot of cars had something on the headlights that made the replacement very tricky! Alfa 1750, for example, had a red plastic hemisphere on front of each headlamp, to make them more Aerodynamically efficient (!): they were so hard to detach that this operation was done by a Technical Assistance Point only! Other cars, like the MG had a steel-wire-net to protect the headlights from debris (remember that most part of the track was not asphalted!)

Talking about what you will see in the future, about this topics, I can say that things will get faster, Aerodynamics will get into effect and as the real race, the game will turn more sprint-y and less endurance-y

May I ask you to keep us updated on how your race develops? Now I'm curious!

Have a good time!
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David Briel
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OK, I have another question:

On page 21, the setup for Stage 3 has the hexagon list as PP, CS3, TS1, CS1, TD2, CD1, PP. The picture of the course shows TD1 instead of TD2. I liked the pattern of using TD1 better and decided to use the picture instead of the text, but which is correct?

And I was right, Stage 3 is much harder. It was raining and I lost control on CD1. I overheated my gearbox and waited 3 turns. Then on my restart I stalled and had to wait another one. cry
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Carlo Amaddeo
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TD1 is the right one: it gives much more the feeling of the winding roads between Bologna and Florence.

Stage 3 is just one of the selective stage: my suggestion is...take it easy until you reach Terni at Stage 6! Stage 5 is a real widow-maker....I'm very curious now to see if the weather improves on Stage 4 and Stage 5 or it remains nasty!....a wet Stage 5 is a real show! devil
 
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Stage 5 was definitely, as you said, a widow-maker. I think my d6 is broken because I can only roll 5 ! I didn't take too much damage but it was treacherous for sure. I'm keeping notes along the way and plan to do a session report when I'm done.

Anyway, another question about Technical Assistance Points:

Do the Technical Assistance Points where it takes half the time to repair, is that time rounded up or down? If something like the Timing Belt is to be replaced requiring 3 turns, would that be 1 or 2 turns at the Technical Assistance Points?
For replacing tires I decided that it couldn't be 0 turns to replace a tire so that was rounded up to still being 1 turn. I later saw on the Rules Summary that it says "not less then 1 turn" so I got that part right. But wanted to know your thoughts on the turns used for other odd numbers like 3.

Also, since the rules say, "Technical Assistance Points have all the necessary parts for repair." then I took that to mean that you do not have to use your own inventory for parts repair. Is that a correct interpretation?
 
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OK, once stage 5 is done you can take a little breath across the Appennini Mountains, from Rome to Ancona: short stages, a couple of annoying downhills, but essentially nothing too hard after you grew up your muscles from Bologna to Rome! The only problem is...no Assistance Points for 6 stages: they may be short, but summing them up all the entire length is...650km!!!!! (stage 12 included, since the Assistance Point is just before Bologna) A quick pit stop at the Assistance Point of Narni (Stage 6) to buy some spares would be a very wise choice!!

Always ROUND DOWN the repair timings at TAP (Technical Assistance Point) and, correctly, you don't have to use your spares there: they got everything they need!

This is getting more and more interesting! Keep us updated!
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Alright. I made it! I was 1 tire point away from a puncture and didn't have any headlights, my engine and transmission had a bit of wear and my brakes were a little worn BUT I made it to the end in my Alfa Romeo. My time was 21h 35m 14s.
Based on what I can find online, that would have put me right after 3rd place for a solid 4th place finish in the actual race of 1927. Very cool.

Anyway, in what I think will be my last questions for the game

The rulebook has SP1 in the hexagon list but it is not shown in the picture. Is SP1 included? I did just because, well, why not and it also fit with the other tiles pretty well.

On drifting, other than just moving outside to a valid number is there any other penalty? It seems like that could be exploited in some conditions. Tile SP1 for example, if travelling at speed 5 into the 3,4,5 corner landing on 3 with Ideal Line (making it 4) would let me drift outside to a 5 and continue on from there at speed 5 rather then 4 (or 3). It's rare and not that advantageous but was just wondering.

THANK YOU, CARLO FOR A GREAT GAME!
 
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Hey your finishing time is GREAT! I confirm your 4th place in the general classification for 1927 right after Danieli and Rosa on their OM and before Strazza and Varallo on Lancia Lambda. But the great thing is you would have won your 3-liters Class...so in other words you won your class! It's not bad at all!!

You'll find all the final standings (even class by class!) on the new blog on our website: this will make playing Legend even more funny in solo play also!

Talking about your questions:

SP1 is not included in Stage 15.

The use of drifting you mention is absolutely correct: it can and it must be exploited! You can approach the curve aggressively and then drift outside: sometimes you can use this to put yourself in a better position for the next curve, for example, approaching a best line that otherwise you couldn't catch!

I have a question for you: how long it took to finish the entire race in terms of playing hours for a first playing session?

 
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That's a good question. For my mini-review that I posted, I timed myself on Stage 15 to get an idea of how long it took. It was about 4 minutes of set up time for the tiles and about 20 minutes of playing time. After that maybe 1 minute to calculate the times. In that 20 minutes I made a few table rolls and had to adjust my sheets so I think it's fairly representative time for one of the longer stages. I also knew the rules very well by Stage 15 so that helped the time. Some of the shorter stages with only 2 - 4 tiles took almost no time at all; maybe 5 minutes total with set up and play time. So the answer is, I don't really know my total playing time. I would generally play about 3 stages per evening after dinner of around 3 hours each. As a strict guess I would say somewhere around 10 - 11 hours total for everything from very start to finish.
 
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Ok, it's the time we expected to finish the game in 4 drivers, once you master the rules. During the tests we played in 6 the Poggibonsi-Roma stage (the longest one) in 75 minutes.

Obviously if you play with 1933 cars, it will take less time due to the increased speed capabilities of those cars, especially those fast stages of the second half of the game!

 
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