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Subject: Denial of Union Naval Control on the Arkansas River (rule 6.62 case 2) rss

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Malcolm Cameron
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This rule reads as follows:

2. A fort or ironclad negates Union naval control between that point and all upriver spaces on the same river if the river originates from a Confederate State.

Little Rock is on the Arkansas River, which originates from a Confederate State.

Assuming that the only Confederate fort is at Vickburg (which is on the Mississippi River) it seems to me that Union Naval Control extends up the Arkansas River, thereby preventing the Rebels crossing the river at Little Rock.

I am looking for someone more experienced in the game than I am to either confirm my understanding or tell me where I am going wrong, so I will spell out my (over?) thinking of the rule ...

There are two reasons why Union Naval Control is not denied in the Arkansas River in this example:

(a) Union Naval Control flows downstream from the headwaters of the Mississippi until stopped by a Rebel fort. If the only fort is at Vicksburg, Union naval control gets to the junction of the Miss and the Arkansas and continues uninterrupted up into the Arkansas from that junction.

(b) The wording of the rule (as set out about) limits it to upriver spaces "on the same river" and then only if "the river originates from a Confederate State".

Vicksburg is not on the Arkansas River so the first limb of the rule is not satisfied, even though the Arkansas originates in a Rebel state (ie Little Rock and Vicksburg are not "on the same river").

Looked at round the other way, the river on which the fort is located (the Mississippi) does not originate in a Rebel state, so the second limb is not satisfied.

I was tempted briefly by the view that the fort at Vicksburg is down stream from Little Rock, which is on a river that originates in a Confederate state, so case 2 applied to all spaces on the Arkansas upriver of Vicksburg.

But I think that is mixing up the two parts of case 2.

To deny Union Naval Control on the Arkansas River the Rebs would need a fort on that river - in which case everywhere from the fort upstream would not be in Union Naval Control.

I would be grateful for any comments / corrections / confirmations!

Regards


Malcolm C
 
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Dave Rubin
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Confirmed.
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Jon Gautier

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Malcolm C wrote:

To deny Union Naval Control on the Arkansas River the Rebs would need a fort on that river - in which case everywhere from the fort upstream would not be in Union Naval Control.


Not quite. With a fort in, say, Vicksburg, the Rebs could DUNC on the Arkansas River with another fort in Memphis or Columbus, KY.
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Dave Rubin
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(a) in the OP clearly stated no such other fort existed.
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David Millette
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Dieroll Honker wrote:
Malcolm C wrote:

To deny Union Naval Control on the Arkansas River the Rebs would need a fort on that river - in which case everywhere from the fort upstream would not be in Union Naval Control.


Not quite. With a fort in, say, Vicksburg, the Rebs could DUNC on the Arkansas River with another fort in Memphis or Columbus, KY.


Newbie here. So, what you're basically saying is that without a fort in Memphis, New Madrid, or Columbus (south of the last Union fort on the river), the CSA cannot cross the Arkansas river at Littlerock without a fort in Littlerock. Is that correct?
 
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Dave Rubin
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Almost. Assuming there is a CSA fort at Vicksburg or some point further south on the Mississippi, then a fort would be required at one of the three spots you mention to DUNC over the entire Arkansas River. Alternatively, the Ohio and Upper Mississippi could be separately blocked by two more CSA forts. However, a CSA fort at Arkansas Post alone will also DUNC over the Arkansas River upstream of that point, allowing the CSA to cross at Little Rock.
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Einmal ist keinmal
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Edit: Nevermind. I've discovered the answer to my own question. It's the Confederate control of the fort at the mouth of the Mississippi (Forts Philip/Jackson, is it?).

Reviving this old thread to ask a follow up (related) question.

In the example of play (1861 or campaign setup), the CSA makes the following move as first card play on the Summer 1861 Turn:

Quote:
Confederate Strategy Round 1:
The first move is to advance Price to Little Rock, AK where he picks up the SP there then he moves back through Fayetteville, AK with 3 SPs and then into Springfield, MO (see illustration to the right).


Now, I don't see anything about any forts along the Arkansas River, so I'm not sure how they were able to deny Union control over this river in order to cross into Little Rock.



Any help is much appreciated. Thanks.
 
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Lars Jämtnäs
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Quote:
Reviving this old thread to ask a follow up (related) question.

In the example of play (1861 or campaign setup), the CSA makes the following move as first card play on the Summer 1861 Turn:

Quote:
Confederate Strategy Round 1:
The first move is to advance Price to Little Rock, AK where he picks up the SP there then he moves back through Fayetteville, AK with 3 SPs and then into Springfield, MO (see illustration to the right).


Now, I don't see anything about any forts along the Arkansas River, so I'm not sure how they were able to deny Union control over this river in order to cross into Little Rock.



Union control over the Arkansas River is already denied at the beginning of the campaign game.

Condition 3 of rule 6.62 applies to all spaces between P/J and Columbus, including those on other rivers than the Mississippi if they originate from Confederate states (i.e. the Red and Arkansas rivers)

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