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Subject: Increased knowledge variant rss

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Just Lucky
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From the comments on this game there appear to be two complaints (from those strange people who don't love this game).

First, the Duke is over used at the start of the game.
Second, you do not have sufficient information to make deductions.

The most obvious response to these comments are 'so what, that is the game. It is a game of bluffing not deduction. If you want deduction then play Clue (Cluedo).'

However, I have a suggestion that may help to resolve these issues for such people:

The Clumsy Duke Variant:

Each time a Duke is played a card from the Deck is turned over and displayed in a row (unless that would be the last card in the deck). After this has happened, someone may challenge the player of the Duke action as normal. When an Ambassador is played, the player may pick up the revealed cards from the row and secretly choose one of these. The other card must come from the unexposed deck. The player then returns all cards (exposed, deck and discarded cards) to the deck and then shuffles the deck.

But why?

First, this adds more risk to playing the Duke when you don't have him. If you turn over a Duke card and someone holds two Dukes then they can deduct that you are lying. More likely, however, if one Duke is already showing and you turn over another Duke then any one who is holding a Duke knows that you are lying and can challenge you. The Ambassador puts the cards back in the deck but players can still keep track of some of the cards that are available in deck. Playing the Ambassador when a particularly desirable card is available may suggest to others that you have picked that card up - but they won't be sure.


Nothing for a pair? (Possible house rule when holding a pair)

One other comment was how bad a deal a pair of the same cards are because it means you have to lie (and some people appear not to enjoy lying shake). If they really wanted, they could add a house rule of a further possible action: If you hold a pair you can discard a single card to the deck and pick up a new card. This action could be challenged but why would anyone challenge this action when a better action would be the Ambassador's action. If the action is challenged then the player would have to show both cards and pick up two new cards.

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Joseph Arthur Ellis
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Eh, to me the problem is people don't lie enough, why make it harder to lie with the one role people get comfortable lying about?

Use the Ambassador power more yourself, even if you don't have him, that'll give you a leg up in stopping rampant Duke use.

Any complaints about Contessa or having a pair is nonsense... If you're not into lying, don't play.
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Just Lucky
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All that is well said!
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Tim
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The Duke can be overused at the beginning of the game. But that is hilarious. We played a 4-player game the other night. The first 3 people all said they had the Duke... so of course I did too!

The counter to too many Dukes is to claim Captain and start stealing their money. If you actually have the Captain, so much the better. Either they will incorrectly challenge you and lose an influence, or they'll have to pick another role to exploit.

My thought is that it's best to tell the truth as often as possible, and lie only at key moments. If you're just lying every turn, you're going to get caught quickly.

The most under-challenged role, I've found, is Ambassador. Nobody wants to put themselves on the line to stop you from drawing a few cards... but the Ambassador is a super powerful card that can allow you to actually have the roles you want.

All that said, I'd still be willing to try variants myself, but games in my group have a hard enough time getting repeated plays (a lot of folks in my group own a lot of games), and it's too risky to try a game with a variant that might break the game and drive people away from it.
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Brian Bankler
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Game Five last night -- I took duke as my first two actions.

I did not survive to the 3rd.

You know what works well against the Duke? Killing them.

I don't think I'll claim to be the Duke at the start of the next game unless I happen to have a Contessa.

Good thing nobody in my group reads this. ninja

Seriously. Chess doesn't seem to be fading because 1.e4 is a popular opening.

Quote:

The most under-challenged role, I've found, is Ambassador.


Quoted for Truth. By the fourth game I'd decided to challenge an ambassador whenever I'd seen two (out of three) recently. Sadly Cassidy had the last, but you have to do these things to set up epic plays later.

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Martin G
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Yeah, we had a 5-player game the other day in which the first 6 actions taken were Tax. The next two were Assassin, eliminating player 1 from the game
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Lloyd
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This game is bullshit.
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qwertymartin wrote:
Yeah, we had a 5-player game the other day in which the first 6 actions taken were Tax. The next two were Assassin, eliminating player 1 from the game


Was that the game I was in? If so, I think that was the same game where I used my Contessa as a Captain (successfully), then as an Assassin (successfully) and then as a Contessa for the win!

The truth is for losers.
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