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Subject: Kudos For Including the Expansion rss

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Nick Case
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I picked this up at Essen and just broke the shrink to get ready for the first play. I was intrigued by the envelope with the 'Do Not Open' sticker but did as I was told until I'd sorted the rules. On opening the envelope I was delighted to find a full blown expansion with tiles cards and an all encompassing rule book. I could name too many games that offer the addition of an expansion to a newly published game for a chunk of cash with considerably less content than this.

Well done Z-Man, other companies, please take note.
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Bruce Murphy
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Big Bad Lex wrote:
I picked this up at Essen and just broke the shrink to get ready for the first play. I was intrigued by the envelope with the 'Do Not Open' sticker but did as I was told until I'd sorted the rules. On opening the envelope I was delighted to find a full blown expansion with tiles cards and an all encompassing rule book. I could name too many games that offer the addition of an expansion to a newly published game for a chunk of cash with considerably less content than this.

Well done Z-Man, other companies, please take note.


Z-Man didn't develop this game. That would be HiG.

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Nick Case
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My box says Z-Man on the side.
 
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Bruce Murphy
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Big Bad Lex wrote:
My box says Z-Man on the side.


Nonetheless.

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Jonathan Degann
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HiG developed it but ultimately Z-man made the decision to include the expansion at no additional cost.

OTOH, Z-man tends to price their games higher to begin with. Had this been released by Rio Grande, it would probably have been $10 - $20 less. It's too bad that RGG is no longer publishing HiG titles.
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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On the other hand, this game without the expansion is a waste of time. I have no idea why K&K insist on playing the game for the first time without the expansion....many people simply wouldn't play it again.
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Bruce Murphy
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Jonathan Degann wrote:
HiG developed it but ultimately Z-man made the decision to include the expansion at no additional cost.

OTOH, Z-man tends to price their games higher to begin with. Had this been released by Rio Grande, it would probably have been $10 - $20 less. It's too bad that RGG is no longer publishing HiG titles.


Ultimately, ZMan (actually filosofia) made the decision tO throw some money at HiG to get them to print some extra copies with a zMan logo and English rules. The contents were otherwise identical

It is quite rare (Agricola wooden pieces) for a language co-print to be substantially different.

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Jonathan Degann
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I haven't played the game, Jennifer. The need to play with the "expansion" may reflect an increasing trend to call the advanced (non-beginner) rules and their components an "expansion" in order to give an impression of value.

The same held true of Fresco which really needed the included "expansion" to be worthwhile.

I have been told that the 2 Player Agricola is worthless without the expansion - although in this case it costs extra!
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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Well Jonathan, I have played the game and the expansion several times in fact. You are welcome to play the game without the expansion and see what you think. Value or not, the plain vanilla game is only worth playing if Settlers is your favorite level of play.

I have never played Fresco with any expansions at all and have played it over five times and enjoyed it each time.
 
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Dan C
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I agree with Jonathan on Fresco, and immediately thought of that game when started reading this thread. Too blah without the expansions, and too complex for newbies with them.
 
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Dan Rosewater
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I wouldn't describe it as an "expansion".
It's a basic game and an advanced or expert game.
It is probable that the authors developped the game, then the publisher said "great, but a little too complex for casual gamers... can you split it up in a basic game and an advanced game?" Well of course the authors said yes.
And yes the original HiG version offers the same basic and expert variant as Z-Man or Filosfia and it seems that by co-publishing contract they had to publish it 100% the same.

The most annoying is how the game differs between basic game and expert game. The publisher put a sheet with extra rules, markers and cards in a sealed enveloppe and wrote on it: Don't open this before you have at least played the base game once or twice!
Are they kidding? Even the basic rules contains a warning not to play the expert variant right from the start. So what? The base game is (point of view experienced players) so bland, that they easily could play the advanced game rightaway. The expert mode only adds the possibility to upgrade an already built building, two additional scoring spots and some additional cards offering different game end conditions. That's all. It's just plain ridiculous that there are warnings (!) about the expert game in the rules. It's OK to say: we recommend families or casual gamers to start with basic game but this explicit "don't do it" is misvaluing me.
I am willing to play again (with expert rules) but please dear publishers, don't start patronizing me.
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Mik Svellov
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jschlickbernd wrote:
On the other hand, this game without the expansion is a waste of time. I have no idea why K&K insist on playing the game for the first time without the expansion....many people simply wouldn't play it again.

I don't think you should blame K&K.
Bernd made me play the basic version of prototype and first when I complained that the game was too bland and boring did he tell of the expansion. Which I then played, and it completely changed my view upon the game. So much that I played it again 3 times the next day.
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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So you're saying it's the publisher. Tell him next time you see him that if he does a second edition he needs to simply state that there are beginner rules and rules for everyone else.
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Jeff Michaud
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Jonathan Degann wrote:
HiG developed it but ultimately Z-man made the decision to include the expansion at no additional cost.

did they? to my knowledge the so called "expansion" was also in the original German edition (which I played last weekend). It's not that Z-Man decided to include it, it's part of the game (as others have noted it's really an expansion, it's part of the full game... the "basic" game is simply to learn the basic mechanics)
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Homo Ludens
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The 'expansion' is just the advanced rules and pieces.

Personally I would play with the advanced rules right from the start, and add in the end goal cards after a couple of plays.

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