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Subject: News on the Rio Grande releases scheduled for December 2012? rss

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Travis Bridges
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Anybody have any news on the Rio Grande releases scheduled for 2012? I am planning to preorder Tzolk'in, Copycat and Myrmes...will they get here in December?
 
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Albert Hernandez
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You can check Gone Cardboard here on BGG. I sorted it by Publisher and found Rio Grande Games on page 11...
http://boardgamegeek.com/gonecardboard/page/11?releasestatus...

You get to it from the "Browse" menu on top. I don't find the current version of Gone Cardboard as easy to navigate or understand as the older version on the Board Game News website before BGG swallowed it up.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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Both versions are terrible.

But seriously, does RGG even want to sell their games? Would it kill them to even mention their new games on their website? shake
 
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Walt
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curtc wrote:
But seriously, does RGG even want to sell their games? Would it kill them to even mention their new games on their website? shake


RGG website news wrote:
We will be presenting several new games at Essen this year. ... Monster Factory, Spin Monkeys, Dominion: Dark Ages, Myrmes, CopyCat, Power Grid: United Kingdom & Northern Europe, Unexpected Treasures, Tzolk'in, Goblins, Inc, Maria, The Doge Ship, and Antike: Duellum.
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Curt Carpenter
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Ok, if you click on their Essen news item, there's that. With of course no links to the games, info on release dates, etc.
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Walt
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You can also click on "View all our games" then "View All future new release" which gives you Arctic Scavengers, Cavemen, Credit Mobiler, Mogul, Monster Factory, RFTG: Alien Artifacts and Those Pesky Garden Gnomes, with links to game pages. Most of these are listed as December, Cavemen as November, and MF and TPGG as In Print.

I don't know how well that coincides with reality. Not so much, I'd expect: RGG outsources its web site.

It might be most useful to see what's about to come out of the other end of the pipeline. B&B has a pretty good search engine:
http://www.boardsandbits.com/index.php?publishers_id=1597&so...
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Curt Carpenter
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The "View All future new release" (sic) doesn't even include any of the games the OP was asking about!

I bet if they asked for volunteers from the BGG community they could have 10x the web presence they have now. And actually give the impression they care.
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Walt
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And release fewer games. RGG is very much a shoestring operation. Jay has been successful running it that way. How many new games does RGG release compared to Mayfair? The transition from a small- to a medium-size company is extremely dangerous as it requires the owner to put a level of management (which he may not have hired before) between himself and all the things he has overseen personally. I'll take RGG as-is rather than risk losing it.
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Curt Carpenter
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How long does it take to put a list of new games with estimated release dates on the front page of your site? Maybe 15 minutes? Conservatively? All of the games the OP listed are already on their site! But with no mention of them or links to them anywhere! (that I can find) And then what, maybe another 10 minutes per game to put up some description?

I completely disagree that spending about an hour per month would make them release fewer games, or somehow require growing from a small to medium company, or risk losing it. That's ridiculous. I'm talking like .01 full-time employee.

Compare: http://zmangames.com
And they started with one dude, long long long after RGG was up and running successfully.
 
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Walt
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So the Z-man is good at web site creation and Jay isn't. That's the bottom line. Jay would have to hire an in-house web author and communicate with him. Plus he would have to do all the employment overhead stuff--or hire it out, which has its own overhead. (I can tell you from personal experience, when you pay someone to save you time and effort, it usually does neither.)

And, you know, Jay probably has family. So in addition to recovering and unpacking from Essen and BGG.con, he did Thanksgiving, is doing Christmas shopping etc. Everyone is busy this time of year, and Jay has any number of tax documents to file by the end of the year as well. I can't imagine what he has to do for customs and international payments.

I'm not surprised reading your profile. Programmers often make the mistake of viewing something in isolation. You want to write a program? You have to go to a design review, write comments, go to status meetings, fix some random computer or OS glitch, take time to go back to an old project, work on an emergency project, do a dog and pony show--or get sick for a week. Nothing is ever simple. Ever. What do you mean, "Life hijacks board game night"? How can that be? You don't even have to do design reviews or tax paperwork for it!

Well, things aren't so simple for Jay either. That someone else does better really isn't relevant. RGG is what it is. Be grateful for what it is; don't whinge about how it's not perfect. Nothing is.


Oh, and on the specific point of when a game will hit the street, Jay got burned too many times by publishers and shippers changing the schedule. He's at the end of a many-month, thousands of miles long supply chain he doesn't control (you want he should buy his own printing company and container ship?) It's out when it's out. That's been a Rule for a few years now, I think.
 
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Matt Brown
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Tall_Walt wrote:
I'm not surprised reading your profile. Programmers often make the mistake of viewing something in isolation. You want to write a program? You have to go to a design review, write comments, go to status meetings, fix some random computer or OS glitch, take time to go back to an old project, work on an emergency project, do a dog and pony show--or get sick for a week. Nothing is ever simple. Ever. What do you mean, "Life hijacks board game night"? How can that be? You don't even have to do design reviews or tax paperwork for it!


He could use a WordPress style blog to do the news feed and then list games in the side bar. The site has a clean design but getting the info that user might want is harder than need be. Really, getting a credible site up isn't that hard these days. I think people who know how to build sites deem the task as being overly simple and people who don't make it out to be far more bigger of an issue than it is. Adding links to the games in question in the news article is really as easy as it gets.

P.S. As somebody who spent enough time on web design forums to become a mod on one, Z-Man's site is merely ok.
 
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Walt
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It's another straw. You know? Like the one that broke the camel's back?

And given that Jay hired the web stuff out, he probably doesn't like doing it--he seems pressed just to put out a newsletter now and then. So, it's probably stressful, and he avoids it as we all avoid stress (or try to).

Look, I'm just saying, let Jay be Jay. He's human with limitations, just like everyone else. RGG is not Hasbro, with dozens of flunkies to perform any task. RGG is probably a smaller organization than BGG. Let Jay run his company in peace, especially in this season, and treasure the products we get when we get them.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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Tall_Walt wrote:
So the Z-man is good at web site creation and Jay isn't. That's the bottom line. Jay would have to hire an in-house web author and communicate with him.

He already has a web site. The new games are in the db. Someone is already doing that. And I was wrong, the descriptions for the games are also on the site. I just didn't notice because when you search for a game, you get the search results, rather than the actual game page, and you have to click the game to get to the game page. Making mention of them on the front page (or via a news item) is a minimal incremental change that takes very few minutes. His site already supports this. He just doesn't use it.

Tall_Walt wrote:
Plus he would have to do all the employment overhead stuff--or hire it out, which has its own overhead.

Again, what are you talking about? I'm talking about minutes of work by the person who already does the web work.

Tall_Walt wrote:
And, you know, Jay probably has family. So in addition to recovering and unpacking from Essen and BGG.con, he did Thanksgiving, is doing Christmas shopping etc. Everyone is busy this time of year, and Jay has any number of tax documents to file by the end of the year as well. I can't imagine what he has to do for customs and international payments.

Don't forget reading te newspaper, eating, showering, using the bathroom, etc. Did I mention I'm talking about less than an hour per month? And not of Jay's time. Or maybe $30 translated into costs.

Tall_Walt wrote:
I'm not surprised reading your profile. Programmers often make the mistake of viewing something in isolation. You want to write a program? You have to go to a design review, write comments, go to status meetings, fix some random computer or OS glitch, take time to go back to an old project, work on an emergency project, do a dog and pony show--or get sick for a week. Nothing is ever simple. Ever.

I've been a manager of software engineers/projects for almost 20 years and shipped many products. I'm well aware of all that.

Tall_Walt wrote:
What do you mean, "Life hijacks board game night"? How can that be? You don't even have to do design reviews or tax paperwork for it!

I should probably delete that comment. You'll notice it was from 2009, when I came back from China. Repatriating after living years abroad with family/kids is a major life event. Thankfully things are smoother now, and I'm back to (mostly) regular weekly game nights. If the reason RGG has no listing of upcoming games is because of a major life event, then that would definitely explain it. But the lack of info is not a temporary condition. The last update (other than the very brief blurb in October, which was certainly better than nothing) was in January, for his pdf newsletter. Now THAT takes time and energy. I'm not suggesting he should do anything remotely that time consuming.

Tall_Walt wrote:
Well, things aren't so simple for Jay either. That someone else does better really isn't relevant.

Relevant to what? It certainly seems relevant to what we're discussing.

Tall_Walt wrote:
RGG is what it is. Be grateful for what it is; don't whinge about how it's not perfect. Nothing is.

I do not subscribe to that perspective. That's cromag mentality. Nothing gets better that way. I am not just whining, I am suggesting how to improve.

Tall_Walt wrote:
Oh, and on the specific point of when a game will hit the street, Jay got burned too many times by publishers and shippers changing the schedule. He's at the end of a many-month, thousands of miles long supply chain he doesn't control (you want he should buy his own printing company and container ship?) It's out when it's out. That's been a Rule for a few years now, I think.

In the last pdf he released in Jan of this year (only two months after his previous pdf), he discussed estimated release schedules.
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