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Kingdom of Heaven: The Crusader States 1097-1291» Forums » Rules

Subject: Clarifications rss

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Jim Scheiderich
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Some clarifications if you would:

1 17.4 Resistance Factor says the base value is 3 for strongholds (which include both Castles and Walled Cities per 17.0). To be clear a Walled City is a 3; a full strength Castle is 3 and a reduced Castle is a base RF of 2. Correct? [We have assumed that a Walled City with a larger area and more troops the base could easily be high - not just due to fortifications]

2 18.0 Retreats. While the rules allow for retreat into a stronghold, may a retreating army be split amongst different routes, if desired?

3 Interception/Avoiding Battle/Battle
a) An active force is successfully Intercepted and a force attempting to Avoid battle fails its roll. Does the force that failed to Avoid in anyway participate in the battle caused by the Interception? (We think not)
b) The above results in a defeat for the Intercepting force and now the original active force must battle the force that attempted Avoidance?
c) a) again only the Intercepting force is successful and the Avoid battle roll is as well. The Intercepting force wins forcing the active army to retreat. Must the force that rolled for Avoiding battle still leave the space?

4 16.1 Demobilization; last bullet
Is the status "captured" relative to the original status at the start of a scenario [meaning that if you retake an originally controlled city, it is not "captured" as you held at the start AND you cannot leave 2 units there] or does it apply if a previously captured city is re-captured later i.e. upon change of hands?

5 17.2.6 Establishing a Blockade
If the stronghold is a Port no Blockade is established at this time. We have been unable to find a way that a Port/Stronghold may be Blockaded (unless by an event card that so far has escaped notice)?

When counting "units" does that name mean Units AND Leaders?

6 17.6 Sieges
"There are several ways to weaken..." and on top of p22 both Surrender (Call for?) is listed. It seems a Surrender call would likely be chosen once, then go to a Siege - it in no way weakens i.e. reduces the RF. Seems this bullet should not be here.

Thanks

 
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Wendell
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Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
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thanks!
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Scott de Brestian
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Quote:
17.4 Resistance Factor says the base value is 3 for strongholds (which include both Castles and Walled Cities per 17.0). To be clear a Walled City is a 3; a full strength Castle is 3 and a reduced Castle is a base RF of 2. Correct? [We have assumed that a Walled City with a larger area and more troops the base could easily be high - not just due to fortifications]


Correct. A Walled City will usually have a higher RF, but only if there are troops inside. With more wall length to cover the stronger walls are balanced by insufficient troops if you don't have the garrison.

Quote:
While the rules allow for retreat into a stronghold, may a retreating army be split amongst different routes, if desired?


No. This is not explicitly stated, but implied by the rules (you may not drop off troops, everyone is swept up in the retreat). Will add to the clarifications.

Quote:
a) An active force is successfully Intercepted and a force attempting to Avoid battle fails its roll. Does the force that failed to Avoid in anyway participate in the battle caused by the Interception? (We think not)
b) The above results in a defeat for the Intercepting force and now the original active force must battle the force that attempted Avoidance?
c) a) again only the Intercepting force is successful and the Avoid battle roll is as well. The Intercepting force wins forcing the active army to retreat. Must the force that rolled for Avoiding battle still leave the space?


a) Everyone in the space fights in the battle (assuming none are in a stronghold). The -1 for failed avoid battle roll would apply as well as the +1 for interception.

b) No, see above.

c) Avoidance occurs before the battle, so the army must be moved before rolling the combat.

Quote:
Is the status "captured" relative to the original status at the start of a scenario [meaning that if you retake an originally controlled city, it is not "captured" as you held at the start AND you cannot leave 2 units there] or does it apply if a previously captured city is re-captured later i.e. upon change of hands?


Generally, no. Do you have a specific example? That would make it easier to say.

Quote:
If the stronghold is a Port no Blockade is established at this time. We have been unable to find a way that a Port/Stronghold may be Blockaded (unless by an event card that so far has escaped notice)?


The _only_ way a port may be Blockaded is by one of the "Fleet Lends Aid" cards. Not too common.

Quote:

When counting "units" does that name mean Units AND Leaders?


Leader are not units, ever. If there is anything that implied otherwise, let me know.

Quote:
"There are several ways to weaken..." and on top of p22 both Surrender (Call for?) is listed. It seems a Surrender call would likely be chosen once, then go to a Siege - it in no way weakens i.e. reduces the RF. Seems this bullet should not be here.


Well, it results in the fall of the city, so the defenses are weakened to nothing. cool It's meant loosely.
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Jim Scheiderich
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Scott,

Thanks for the quick reply.

As to 16.1 Demobilization the bullet in question states:

"Up to two friendly units may always remain in each captured city, if no Leader is present. This is not in addition to the above exemptions, but is allowed if all other units have been demobilized."

The example that follows is clear that a player has a choice when more than 2 units are present in a captured City.

My issue goes to what is meant by Captured? Since the game has various alliances (and I haven't poured over the set-ups), what is or is not a "captured" City is not obvious...

1 I proposed that, in one view, captured was relative to the start of a Scenario - so Scenario D (3rd Crusade) Jerusalem is Christian at the start and if the Muslim faction (only Ayyubids) take it it is captured thus any two Muslim units could remain sans Leaders. If it is retaken by the Christians (forget that leaving a poor garrison is dumb for the moment) and at turn end have 4 units in the City but no Leaders they could leave NO units (unless Mil Order or Crusader). Yes, the City was captured but it was originally Christian so its a re-capture and in this view one could NOT retain any units in Jerusalem.

2 Any City once it is captured or (re-captured) becomes "Captured" as per that last bullet and therefore can have 2 units remaining sans Leaders. [I'm inclined that this is the correct way to view this]

Sorry about the finickiness of my question but when board, no war, gamers hit a situation, they try to bleed whatever they can out s a rule
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A question on retreats (14.1). When an army in a space containing a friendly stronghold is forced to retreat because it lost a battle it must do it up to 2 spaces, meaning then it can not enter the stronghold. Is this correct ? we thought was strange, in principle why would it not enter the stronghold even if loosing the battle ?

In the rules regarding Avoiding Battle, the option of retreating into the stronghold is specifically mentioned as an exception to the rules. Wander if that exception also applies when a battle is fought and a retreat is possible.
 
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mpires wrote:
A question on retreats (14.1). When an army in a space containing a friendly stronghold is forced to retreat because it lost a battle it must do it up to 2 spaces, meaning then it can not enter the stronghold. Is this correct ? we thought was strange, in principle why would it not enter the stronghold even if loosing the battle ?

In the rules regarding Avoiding Battle, the option of retreating into the stronghold is specifically mentioned as an exception to the rules. Wander if that exception also applies when a battle is fought and a retreat is possible.

This is clearly mentioned in the rules(14.1):
Quote:

Exception: You
may always retreat part or all of your force into a stronghold you
control in the battle space and retreat the rest elsewhere
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LHIM wrote:
Scott,

Thanks for the quick reply.

As to 16.1 Demobilization the bullet in question states:

"Up to two friendly units may always remain in each captured city, if no Leader is present. This is not in addition to the above exemptions, but is allowed if all other units have been demobilized."

The example that follows is clear that a player has a choice when more than 2 units are present in a captured City.

My issue goes to what is meant by Captured? Since the game has various alliances (and I haven't poured over the set-ups), what is or is not a "captured" City is not obvious...

1 I proposed that, in one view, captured was relative to the start of a Scenario - so Scenario D (3rd Crusade) Jerusalem is Christian at the start and if the Muslim faction (only Ayyubids) take it it is captured thus any two Muslim units could remain sans Leaders. If it is retaken by the Christians (forget that leaving a poor garrison is dumb for the moment) and at turn end have 4 units in the City but no Leaders they could leave NO units (unless Mil Order or Crusader). Yes, the City was captured but it was originally Christian so its a re-capture and in this view one could NOT retain any units in Jerusalem.

2 Any City once it is captured or (re-captured) becomes "Captured" as per that last bullet and therefore can have 2 units remaining sans Leaders. [I'm inclined that this is the correct way to view this]

Sorry about the finickiness of my question but when board, no war, gamers hit a situation, they try to bleed whatever they can out s a rule

Scott may correct me if I'm wrong but I think the answer is simple as this:

See 7.2.1:

Quote:
Walled cities are a special case in that they are not marked as belonging to a specific Power. If they are in a province controlled
by a friendly Power, that Power may muster there normally. If
they are in a province controlled by a neutral or enemy Power
(i.e. they have been captured), no Power controls them (regardless
of the presence of a garrison or who captured the city), and
so no Power has mustering rights.


"Captured city" is a walled city where one side has troops but the province where the city is located is either neutral or enemy controlled.

So, for example if the Christian player has units inside a walled city that is located in a province controlled by the Muslim player, then the Christian player doesn't have mustering rights there.
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yes I see it now in the rules in italic, it is possible to retreat into a stronghold.Thanks. Also from 17.3 if the stronghold capacitiy is not enough, in that case some units must retreat into the castle, and others elsewhere.

 
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