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Subject: another Republican fesses up to voter suppression rss

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fightcitymayor
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/26/jim-greer-florida-v...

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Jim Greer, the former head of the Florida Republican Party, recently claimed that a law shortening the early voting period in the state was deliberately designed to suppress voting among groups that tend to support Democratic candidates, the Palm Beach Post reports.

“The Republican Party, the strategists, the consultants, they firmly believe that early voting is bad for Republican Party candidates,” Greer told the Post. “It’s done for one reason and one reason only...‘We’ve got to cut down on early voting because early voting is not good for us.’"

The HB 1355 law, which was passed by Florida's Republican legislature and signed by Gov. Rick Scott (R) in Nov. 2011, cut the number of early voting days from 14 to eight. It was publicly sold as an effort to reduce voter fraud and to save money, but Greer says that this was simply a "marketing ploy."

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Les Marshall
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Shamelessness reaching new heights.
 
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Josiah Fiscus
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I don't see why this is so shocking. Voting times, places, redistricting, ID laws, and tons of other things are like this. It's not just one party playing these games either.
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Chad
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Taking Jim Greer at face value - why is he saying this? and what context? Because it certainly does stink.
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Dave G
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happyjosiah wrote:
I don't see why this is so shocking. Voting times, places, redistricting, ID laws, and tons of other things are like this. It's not just one party playing these games either.


It isn't, but every time this comes up on these boards you have a contingent of naive simpletons who will swear up and down that none of this fudging with the rules around voting has anything to do with politics, merely the preservation of the democratic process.

I'm with you. It's no surprise. Both sides do what they can to take "opposing" voters out of the equation however possible, and they're all incredibly cynical about it.
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Blorb Plorbst
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Are there recent examples of Democrats using similar tactics to disenfranchise those who would otherwise vote Republican?
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Dave G
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CrankyPants wrote:
Are there recent examples of Democrats using similar tactics to disenfranchise those who would otherwise vote Republican?


Military absentee ballots comes to mind. And the usual gerrymandering nonsense.

Also, it's pretty obvious that the Democrats' support for things like early voting is entirely predicated on the fact that those are reliably Democratic votes. It's not like the evil GOP is out to disenfranchise voters out of cynical self-interest while the noble Dems stand up for the downtrodden voters with a selfless commitment to the electoral process. Don't let either side fool you, it's just about getting re-elected. If early voters were overwhelmingly white Christian men, you'd probably see the same arguments about it but the parties would be reversed.
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Blorb Plorbst
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bjlillo wrote:
CrankyPants wrote:
Are there recent examples of Democrats using similar tactics to disenfranchise those who would otherwise vote Republican?


Yeah. Military absentee ballot stuff mainly.


Are you talking about the Wisconsin 45 day deadline being missed? How was that a partisan issue?
 
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John D
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Is it so hard to come up with an effective national model which will allow adequate number of polling places and voting booths for areas withing a radius' population?

trying to screw people up for their right to vote is just wrong.
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djgutierrez77 wrote:
Also, it's pretty obvious that the Democrats' support for things like early voting is entirely predicated on the fact that those are reliably Democratic votes. It's not like the evil GOP is out to disenfranchise voters out of cynical self-interest while the noble Dems stand up for the downtrodden voters with a selfless commitment to the electoral process. Don't let either side fool you, it's just about getting re-elected. If early voters were overwhelmingly white Christian men, you'd probably see the same arguments about it but the parties would be reversed.

Fair enough, but then, don't let the fact that it's "just about getting re-elected" fool you into believing that the two parties are the same in this. There is a big difference between:
- trying to get between people and their civil right to vote.
- encouraging folks to exercise their civil right to vote.

Neither party owns right or wrong & you might be correct that the parties positions would be different if the demographics were different, but that's not the present reality. In today's reality I know what party is on the side of the voters, on the side of democracy in this issue, and what party is not.
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djgutierrez77 wrote:
Also, it's pretty obvious that the Democrats' support for things like early voting is entirely predicated on the fact that those are reliably Democratic votes.


Yes, but in the end, there's a difference between "agitating to allow people to vote" and "agitating to deny people their vote," and saying "well the other guys would do it too given the chance" without proof is kind of dickish.
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Dave G
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mightygodking wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
Also, it's pretty obvious that the Democrats' support for things like early voting is entirely predicated on the fact that those are reliably Democratic votes.


Yes, but in the end, there's a difference between "agitating to allow people to vote" and "agitating to deny people their vote," and saying "well the other guys would do it too given the chance" without proof is kind of dickish.


Yeah, yeah. Our guys are good and noble and pure, the other guys are evil and wrong and disgusting. I get it. Forgive me for attempting to inject some reality to the discussion.

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Dave G
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bjlillo wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
Also, it's pretty obvious that the Democrats' support for things like early voting is entirely predicated on the fact that those are reliably Democratic votes.


Yes, but in the end, there's a difference between "agitating to allow people to vote" and "agitating to deny people their vote," and saying "well the other guys would do it too given the chance" without proof is kind of dickish.


Not when you're agitating for people to vote illegitimately there isn't.


Oh come off it. You and MGK are two sides of the same idiot coin. "My side is defending what's right, your side is cheating!"
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Dave G
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Fact: The GOP wants to disenfranchise voters who don't vote for them.

Fact: The Democrats also want to disenfranchise voters who don't vote for them.

The only difference between the two is that the GOP has found an easy and obvious way to do it and the Democrats haven't stumbled on one yet. Anyone who believes anything else is a fucking moron.
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Dave G
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bjlillo wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
Fact: The GOP wants to disenfranchise voters who don't vote for them.

Fact: The Democrats also want to disenfranchise voters who don't vote for them.

The only difference between the two is that the GOP has found an easy and obvious way to do it and the Democrats haven't stumbled on one yet. Anyone who believes anything else is a fucking moron.


How do you figure the Democrats haven't stumbled upon one yet? As a Chicagoan, you would have to be blind, deaf, and developmentally-delayed to not see it.



Democrats cheat in Chicago, but they don't pass laws to block voters from the polls. At least not yet.

The willingness on both sides from witless ideologues to believe the best of their own monsters while seeing only the worst of the opposing monsters is pathetic. Anyone who thinks that GOP lawmakers are actually concerned about voter fraud when they pass voter ID laws or try to shut down early voting is a fucking moron. Anyone who thinks that Democrat lawmakers are actually concerned about anyone's right to vote if they're not positive that vote is going to be blue is a fucking moron.
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Dave G
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bjlillo wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
Fact: The GOP wants to disenfranchise voters who don't vote for them.

Fact: The Democrats also want to disenfranchise voters who don't vote for them.

The only difference between the two is that the GOP has found an easy and obvious way to do it and the Democrats haven't stumbled on one yet. Anyone who believes anything else is a fucking moron.


How do you figure the Democrats haven't stumbled upon one yet? As a Chicagoan, you would have to be blind, deaf, and developmentally-delayed to not see it.



Democrats cheat in Chicago, but they don't pass laws to block voters from the polls. At least not yet.

The willingness on both sides from witless ideologues to believe the best of their own monsters while seeing only the worst of the opposing monsters is pathetic. Anyone who thinks that GOP lawmakers are actually concerned about voter fraud when they pass voter ID laws or try to shut down early voting is a fucking moron. Anyone who thinks that Democrat lawmakers are actually concerned about anyone's right to vote if they're not positive that vote is going to be blue is a fucking moron.


Sure they do. Passing laws to make sure that illegal voters can vote is just as disenfranchising as anything Republicans could hope to ever do.


Illegal voters don't vote in significant numbers, regardless of the laws. That's been roundly proven to the satisfaction of everyone but you, Drew, and Matt Drudge.
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J
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Haven't you heard the going theory: Romney wasn't conservative enough to motivate the base to get out and vote which allowed voter fraud to steal the election for Obama.
 
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J
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bjlillo wrote:
Illegal voters vote in numbers significant enough to have changed many high profile elections as I've shown people here on many occasions.

Why is it that you believe only democrats would be guilty of this voter fraud?
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jmilum wrote:
Haven't you heard the going theory: Romney wasn't conservative enough to motivate the base to get out and vote which allowed voter fraud to steal the election for Obama.


I did wander into some conservative blogs lately and the level of denial is pretty astounding. The current count (yes they are still counting) has Obama up by about 4.4 million votes. That would be a lot of fraud.
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J
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bjlillo wrote:
jmilum wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
Illegal voters vote in numbers significant enough to have changed many high profile elections as I've shown people here on many occasions.

Why is it that you believe only democrats would be guilty of this voter fraud?


Why do you insist on saying things that I didn't say and trying to attribute them to me?

I didn't say you said anything nor did I attribute anything to you. On the many occasions you mentioned showing people here in the past, were any of those cases where republicans used voter fraud to win a close election?
 
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Dave is right that Democratic elites support higher turnout because it helps them and not, with some notable exceptions, because it is right and noble. However, I'm all for making voting easy and accessible on principle. I'd even say that the countryside, which is mostly GOP, needs more voting stations. Election day should be a holiday.

Democrats just happen to be on the right side here. That happens a lot, people doing good things for selfish reasons.
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djgutierrez77 wrote:
Yeah, yeah. Our guys are good and noble and pure, the other guys are evil and wrong and disgusting. I get it. Forgive me for attempting to inject some reality to the discussion.


Before you jump up on David Brooks' personal cross there, maybe you just want to address the meat of what I said, which is:

1.) One side is doing the right thing (encouraging votes)
2.) One side is doing the wrong thing (suppressing votes)
3.) Intent is really besides the point because you have no proof

That's all.

Also, glib assertions about "cheating in Chicago" - what? Because I haven't heard about any serious allegations of that sort prior to LBJ's election, and I think forty years hits the past-due limit for equivalency.
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Dave G
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mightygodking wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
Yeah, yeah. Our guys are good and noble and pure, the other guys are evil and wrong and disgusting. I get it. Forgive me for attempting to inject some reality to the discussion.


Before you jump up on David Brooks' personal cross there, maybe you just want to address the meat of what I said, which is:

1.) One side is doing the right thing (encouraging votes)
2.) One side is doing the wrong thing (suppressing votes)
3.) Intent is really besides the point because you have no proof

That's all.

Also, glib assertions about "cheating in Chicago" - what? Because I haven't heard about any serious allegations of that sort prior to LBJ's election, and I think forty years hits the past-due limit for equivalency.


Thanks for your point. What that has to do with my point (namely that both sides are roundly made up of terrible people who skullfuck the country for their own personal enrichment on a regular basis) is beyond me, but thanks for sharing.

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Skullfucking is always worth a nickel per mention, in my opinion.
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MisterCranky wrote:
Skullfucking is always worth a nickel per mention, in my opinion.


You're too kind.
 
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