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War of the Ring: Lords of Middle-earth» Forums » Rules

Subject: "We Won't Go Back" card rss

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Kwang Il Kim
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Hi?
I'm editing my reference charts due to Lords of Middle-earth.
But I don't know exactly when I can use "We Won't Go Back".

...
4. Use "Wizard's Staff" Free People Character Event card THEN draw a Hunt tile
5. Use "We Shall Get It" Shadow Character Event card THEN use one "Play on the table" Free People Character Event card
6. Determine the Hunt Damage (= Roll a die for "Shelob's Lair" special Hunt tile)
7. Use Companions' Guide special abilities THEN take one Companion as a casualty OR separate one Hobbit
8. Use the Ring (= Add any remaining Hunt Damage)
...

Which step can I use the card on?
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Raf B
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The card is dependent on when a Sméagol tile is drawn during the Hunt, so from what I can tell, before any of the steps you list.
 
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Kwang Il Kim
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Rafamir wrote:
The card is dependent on when a Sméagol tile is drawn during the Hunt, so from what I can tell, before any of the steps you list.


First, I was wondering if a Sméagol tile is considered as a Hunt tile.

On Step 5, Shadow and Free People players each have a chance to draw another Hunt tile.
A Sméagol tile can be drawn as the first tile on Step 4, or as a replacing tile by Shadow or Free People player on Step 5.

"We Won't Go Back" adds 2 Corruption points, so should the card be played before Step 7?
 
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Ralf Schemmann
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Yeah, once the hunt damage is finalized, i.e. between your steps 6 and 7.

Note that there would be a difference between certain Free "Play on the table" cards. "Mithril Coat and Sting" would be used in your step 5 (to redraw a hunt tile), but "Axe and Bow" would be used before your step 7 (after knowing the final damage from the tile).
 
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Roberto Di Meglio
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skeil wrote:
Hi?
I'm editing my reference charts due to Lords of Middle-earth.
But I don't know exactly when I can use "We Won't Go Back".

...
4. Use "Wizard's Staff" Free People Character Event card THEN draw a Hunt tile
5. Use "We Shall Get It" Shadow Character Event card THEN use one "Play on the table" Free People Character Event card
6. Determine the Hunt Damage (= Roll a die for "Shelop's Lair" special Hunt tile)
7. Use Companions' Guide special abilities THEN take one Companion as a casualty OR separate one Hobbit
8. Use the Ring (= Add any remaining Hunt Damage)
...

Which step can I use the card on?


First, remember that "We Won't Go Back" can only be played when SMEAGOL IS THE GUIDE.

So there can not be an interaction with "We shall get it", which is a card which only enters play when Smeagol is eliminated.

The card does not increase "Hunt Damage" and can not be handled as Hunt Damage. It just adds 2 Corruption Points AS SOON AS the Smeagol tile is drawn.

Wizard's Staff (which PREVENTS drawing a tile) is used before the Hunt Sequence. But as soon as the Hunt Sequence begins (by drawing a tile) you can immediately use "We Won't Go Back" to add 2 Corruption Points.

So using your sequence you would have:
1) play Wizard's Staff;
2) if Wizard's Staff is not played, draw a Hunt Tile;
3) if the Hunt tile is a Smeagol tile, and Smeagol is the Guide, use "We Won't Go Back" to add 2 Corruption points.
4) Resolve the "Effects of the Hunt" sequence (which normally as a Sméagoòl tile was drawn, should have no other ill effect which I can think of at this momemnt).


If, during the Effects of the Hunt sequence, you draw a new or additional tile for any reason, and the NEW tile is a Smeagol tile, you can still use "We Won't Go Back", of course.
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Kwang Il Kim
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Ok.
2 Corruption points added by "We Won't Go Back" are not 2 Hunt Damage, right?

Free People can prevent a Sméagol tile with "Wizard's Staff" before drawing, but cannot use any "Play on the table" Free People Character card to reduce the two Corruption points after drawing, except for "Mithril Coat and Sting".

Let me explain the sequence:
...
4. Use "Wizard's Staff" THEN draw a Hunt tile
5. Use "We Shall Get It" (if Gollum is the Guide) THEN use one "Play on the table" Free People Character Event card
(if a Sméagol tile is drawn, Free People may only use "Mithril Coat and Sting" to draw another Hunt tile)

6. Determine the Hunt Damage (= roll a die for "Shelob's Lair")
7. Use Companions' Guide special abilities THEN take one Companion as a casualty OR separate one Hobbit
8. Use the Ring (= add any remaining Hunt Damage)
(if a Sméagol tile was drawn, skip Steps 6-8 and just add two Corruption points)
...

Correct?


EDIT: Step 5
 
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Ralf Schemmann
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cybernex wrote:

The card does not increase "Hunt Damage" and can not be handled as Hunt Damage. It just adds 2 Corruption Points AS SOON AS the Smeagol tile is drawn.


Ah, thanks for clarifying! That's something I hadn't really considered yet.
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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But the question is how "Mithril Coat..." interacts with "We won't Go Back".

Can the FP player decide to use "Mithril..." after the Shadow decides to use "We Won't..."? I don't think so but it might be needed a clarifictaion.
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Kevin Chapman
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I would think that the Free Peoples player must decide whether to use Mithril Coat when the tile is drawn, before the Shadow player decides whether to use We Won't Go Back, and may not change that decision later.
 
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Roberto Di Meglio
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Mithril Coat (just like any other "Play on the table" protection card of the FP player) is used as the first step of the Effects of the Hunt Sequence.

The draw of a Sméagol tile can not be influenced by Mithrill Coat, because it's resolved without starting the sequence.
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Kevin Chapman
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That makes sense for a Smeagol tile drawn that brings Smeagol into play, but what about one that is drawn when Smeagol is already in play (which is the issue here)? The rules say that "the Hunt Damage is considered to be 0", which would indicate that the Hunt sequence is followed.
 
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Kwang Il Kim
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cybernex wrote:
Mithril Coat (just like any other "Play on the table" protection card of the FP player) is used as the first step of the Effects of the Hunt Sequence.

The draw of a Sméagol tile can not be influenced by Mithrill Coat, because it's resolved without starting the sequence.

Then I want to ask you a different thing.
Can a "Play on the table" Free People Character Event card interact with Shadow Character Event card, like "Orc patrol", "Isildur's Bane" or "Foul Thing from the Deep"?

If a Sméagol tile is also a Hunt tile, why doesn't Free People player have a chance to replace the tile with another one?
"Mithril Coat and Sting" can be used only once, unlikely "We Won't Go Back".
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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skeil wrote:
Can a "Play on the table" Free People Character Event card interact with Shadow Character Event card, like "Orc patrol"?


Yes. You are told to follow the rules for a normal hunt.

skeil wrote:
"Isildur's Bane"?


No, the Event Card instructs you that all Hunt damage must be taken as Corruption.

skeil wrote:
"Foul Thing from the Deep"?


No, the Event card instructs you to eliminate a random Companion to reduce Corruption.
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Kwang Il Kim
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Veldrin wrote:
skeil wrote:
Can a "Play on the table" Free People Character Event card interact with Shadow Character Event card, like "Orc patrol"?


Yes. You are told to follow the rules for a normal hunt.

skeil wrote:
"Isildur's Bane"?


No, the Event Card instructs you that all Hunt damage must be taken as Corruption.

skeil wrote:
"Foul Thing from the Deep"?


No, the Event card instructs you to eliminate a random Companion to reduce Corruption.


Except for "Wizard's Staff" used before drawing a Hunt tile, any other "Play on the table" Free People Character Event card can't have effects against "Isildur's Bane" or "Foul Thing from the Deep"?
Cannot replace the tile with another one?
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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I believe "Mithril Coat and Sting" could be used to draw another Hunt tile.
 
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birchbeer
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Yikes! Put me down for Skeil's updated chart!
 
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Scott M.
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Where can i get this chart?
 
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Kwang Il Kim
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"We Won't Go Back" skips the Hunt resolution, and the Hunt resolution starts with Use a Free People "Ply on the table" Character Event card.

Here is an example:
#1 Shadow player draws a Hunt tile
#2 Shadow player decides to use "We Shall Get It" and draw another tile (Gollum is the Guide)
#3 Free People player decides to use "Mithril Coat and Sting" and draw the third tile

Two players drew total 3 tiles.
If the first tile was a Sméagol tile, neither player could use his card re-drawing?

 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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If "We Shall Get It" can be played Gollum must be the Guide and any drawn Sméagol tile would be discarded.
 
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Kwang Il Kim
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Veldrin wrote:
If "We Shall Get It" can be played Gollum must be the Guide and any drawn Sméagol tile would be discarded.

Ah... you're right.

Anyway, if a Sméagol tile is drawn, skip the Hunt resolution and add two Corruption points, right?
Hoping I understand all. cry
 
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Kwang Il Kim
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atraangelis wrote:
Where can i get this chart?

http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/84164/war-of-the-ring-cust...

Here it is.
But I have to revise it.
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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The official FAQ for Lords of Middle-earth is now available.

See this thread for the links: http://boardgamegeek.com/article/10655686#10655686
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Scott M.
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f-ing awesome...
 
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