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Subject: Crack Down on Online Piracy rss

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Kiren Maelwulf
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http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/internet/Company+coll...

So this article came out today and claims that Canada is now following internet piracy tracking similar to the US. I’m wondering for those in the US, has this crackdown actually been successful? It seems to me to be pretty difficult to prove from a legal standpoint, not to mention the type of identity tracking that humans rights activists are always going nuts about.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Well unless you use an anonymous IP they will trace you, size your computer and search it. Also they may be able to use the same software you use to pirate to have a peek at what you share.

In essence this won't affect the hardcore pirates who know what they are doing, it will hurt the casual pirate who is not really the problem.
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Damian
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A few college students and parents were sued for ridiculous sums of money. Not much else happened, and little has changed. Individual courts around the country have gone various ways on things like "is the holder of an ISP account responsible for all activity on it?" and there hasn't been much at a significant judicial level.

Piracy rolls inevitably on.
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Mac Mcleod
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In the U.S., a tiny percentage of people who pirate are hit really hard.

One mom who had 24 songs was hit for something like $150,000 per song. It was ridiculous.

I think the long term trend will be back to sneakernet and private, invitational sites like it was back in the 80's.

On the flip side things like Redbox and Netflix kill piracy from the top end. Why pirate when you can legally use the content for almost nothing.

Most piracy is by people who are so poor that they wouldn't buy the product anyway. And since there is no physical product, the creators are losing no money to these people.

For the people who do have money who use the piracy network there is a tradeoff of increased sales vs lost sales. At current levels, what I've seen is that piracy increases sales slightly more than it lowers sales.

Oh, and a lot of people pirate so they can format shift products they already own. I.e. say I own sherlock holmes but want to watch it on my tablet- I can pirate a copy which has no copy protection. Likewise, if I'm going on vacation, I may not want to take 73 original disks when I can load the 73 shows onto my hard drive or a memory stick.
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Kiren Maelwulf
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It strikes me as difficult to track people’s IPs off of torrent sites without resorting to Trojans or other devices that many data hackers utilize. The legality of this puzzles me. In addition with so many viruses that hijack IPs I question how anyone in this day and age could prove it was actually the PC owner who was responsible.

I suppose if law enforcement barges into one’s home unannounced and seizes your devices they could check, but that seems unlikely for such a transgression, especially when police are already stretched thin.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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Kirenx wrote:
It strikes me as difficult to track people’s IPs off of torrent sites without resorting to Trojans or other devices that many data hackers utilize. The legality of this puzzles me. In addition with so many viruses that hijack IPs I question how anyone in this day and age could prove it was actually the PC owner who was responsible.

I suppose if law enforcement barges into one’s home unannounced and seizes your devices they could check, but that seems unlikely for such a transgression, especially when police are already stretched thin.


Can you not look who is sharing with you?
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Kiren Maelwulf
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slatersteven wrote:
Kirenx wrote:
It strikes me as difficult to track people’s IPs off of torrent sites without resorting to Trojans or other devices that many data hackers utilize. The legality of this puzzles me. In addition with so many viruses that hijack IPs I question how anyone in this day and age could prove it was actually the PC owner who was responsible.

I suppose if law enforcement barges into one’s home unannounced and seizes your devices they could check, but that seems unlikely for such a transgression, especially when police are already stretched thin.


Can you not look who is sharing with you?


I guess so, I wasn't aware of that.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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Kirenx wrote:
It strikes me as difficult to track people’s IPs off of torrent sites without resorting to Trojans or other devices that many data hackers utilize. The legality of this puzzles me. In addition with so many viruses that hijack IPs I question how anyone in this day and age could prove it was actually the PC owner who was responsible.

I suppose if law enforcement barges into one’s home unannounced and seizes your devices they could check, but that seems unlikely for such a transgression, especially when police are already stretched thin.


All you have to do start downloading a file and you are also uploading it with a torrent so your IP is exposed.

Downloading a file (or posessing a file) is not illegal but uploading the file is illegal. If you upload to law enforcement you are toast. If you upload to a company or their paid affiliates, you are toast.

The one thing which finally stopped/slowed down the lawsuits was the judges FINALLY realized that an I.P. address is not really like a fingerprint.

Anyone in the house could be the guilty person. Someone could be spoofing your IP address. Someone could be using your wireless connection.

It's like 3 people are in the room and 1 person is killed. You know it was one of the 2 people- but which one?




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Clay
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maxo-texas wrote:


Downloading a file (or posessing a file) is not illegal but uploading the file is illegal.



Are you sure about this part? I'm not saying it isn't correct but it certainly doesn't sound right.
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Mac Mcleod
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The Message wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:


Downloading a file (or posessing a file) is not illegal but uploading the file is illegal.



Are you sure about this part? I'm not saying it isn't correct but it certainly doesn't sound right.


It didn't sound right to me as I was arguing at length on slashdot a few years ago so I looked it up. At least then, what they were busting people for is illegal distribution.

You can't prove illegal ownership ( This is my personal copy from a disk which I later lost ).

It may have changed but I don't think it has.
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Clay
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maxo-texas wrote:
The Message wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:


Downloading a file (or posessing a file) is not illegal but uploading the file is illegal.



Are you sure about this part? I'm not saying it isn't correct but it certainly doesn't sound right.


It didn't sound right to me as I was arguing at length on slashdot a few years ago so I looked it up. At least then, what they were busting people for is illegal distribution.

You can't prove illegal ownership ( This is my personal copy from a disk which I later lost ).

It may have changed but I don't think it has.


Ah, I'll keep that in mind then. "Yes, officer, I had a $50,000 CD collection but lost track of it, that's where all this came from. Nevermind the ones that are still zipped, that's for storage considerations."
 
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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Steam and iTunes have done more to counter piracy than any crackdown ever has.
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lotus dweller
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You can gauge the amount of piracy from the sizes of the "allowable downloads per month" accounts that ISPs provide.

Either there is an incredible amount of home video being shared or there is a lot of downloading happening.

Guess which companies want to sell you more bandwidth?
Guess which companies would loose money if their clients were not downloading and so moved to smaller limit accounth?
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Mac Mcleod
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The Message wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
The Message wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:


Downloading a file (or possessing a file) is not illegal but uploading the file is illegal.



Are you sure about this part? I'm not saying it isn't correct but it certainly doesn't sound right.


It didn't sound right to me as I was arguing at length on slashdot a few years ago so I looked it up. At least then, what they were busting people for is illegal distribution.

You can't prove illegal ownership ( This is my personal copy from a disk which I later lost ).

It may have changed but I don't think it has.


Ah, I'll keep that in mind then. "Yes, officer, I had a $50,000 CD collection but lost track of it, that's where all this came from. Nevermind the ones that are still zipped, that's for storage considerations."


Think of it this way: Can you legally record songs off the radio?

The answer, in the U.S., under "fair use" current law is "Yes."

Can you prove that a song on your hard disk or memory is recorded

a) legally off of the radio by you (you see they have these radios with cassettes which legally record songs to play later)

b) legally off of a CD you own

c) legally by a friend of yours from an identical CD they won and illegally distributed to you even tho you own the CD too.

d) legally recorded off the radio or CD or other audio source by someone else and then illegally distributed to you

e) illegally by a friend of yours from a disk you own and loaned to them and then they illegally distribute the recorded copy to you when they return the disk and the copy to you. ("can you burn me a copy to take on vacation so my original is not at risk? "Sorry no- you can do that but I can't")

---

As a side note, a RIAA representative did state clearly in an interview a few years ago that:
if you had a fully loaded Ipod ($10,000 worth of songs) and your CD collection was lost or destroyed,

then you are supposed to destroy the contents of the Ipod since you no longer possess the originals. Presumably the license transfers to whoever has the physical disk (the thief, the used CD store, and then another consumer).

However-- any songs on the iPod which you recorded off the radio you could keep.

Some more details here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_music_ripping#Legal_issue...
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Dan Schaeffer
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maxo-texas wrote:
The Message wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
The Message wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:


Downloading a file (or possessing a file) is not illegal but uploading the file is illegal.



Are you sure about this part? I'm not saying it isn't correct but it certainly doesn't sound right.


It didn't sound right to me as I was arguing at length on slashdot a few years ago so I looked it up. At least then, what they were busting people for is illegal distribution.

You can't prove illegal ownership ( This is my personal copy from a disk which I later lost ).

It may have changed but I don't think it has.


Ah, I'll keep that in mind then. "Yes, officer, I had a $50,000 CD collection but lost track of it, that's where all this came from. Nevermind the ones that are still zipped, that's for storage considerations."


Think of it this way: Can you legally record songs off the radio?

The answer, in the U.S., under "fair use" current law is "Yes."


It's not that simple. Fair use isn't a broad doctrine that is easy to apply to a generic situation - it's a fact-specific analysis that gets decided on a case-by-case basis.

The answer to the question, more accurately, is "It doesn't matter because nobody gives a flying fuck about you recording a song off the radio."

Quote:
Can you prove that a song on your hard disk or memory is recorded

a) legally off of the radio by you (you see they have these radios with cassettes which legally record songs to play later)

b) legally off of a CD you own

c) legally by a friend of yours from an identical CD they won and illegally distributed to you even tho you own the CD too.

d) legally recorded off the radio or CD or other audio source by someone else and then illegally distributed to you

e) illegally by a friend of yours from a disk you own and loaned to them and then they illegally distribute the recorded copy to you when they return the disk and the copy to you. ("can you burn me a copy to take on vacation so my original is not at risk? "Sorry no- you can do that but I can't")


What they can do is prove that a particular IP address downloaded a particular song.

Downloading a song is making a copy of that song. Copying is one of the exclusive rights bundled into the package known as "copyright." As a definitional matter, then, downloading a song is a copyright infringement.

From there, questions of fair use and whether the copyright owner gives enough fucks to come after a particular downloader will determine how much trouble, if any, the downloader gets into.
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lotus dweller
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Golux13 wrote:
.... IP address downloaded a particular song.

Downloading a song is making a copy of that song. Copying is one of the exclusive rights bundled into the package known as "copyright." As a definitional matter, then, downloading a song is a copyright infringement.

From there, questions of fair use and whether the copyright owner gives enough fucks to come after a particular downloader will determine how much trouble, if any, the downloader gets into.
I think standard practice is to prosecute uploading the song though - maybe you've got the song from where-ever - but if your IP address uploads it then they have a clearer case - it doesn't matter where your copy of the song came from - they've shown that your IP address has distributed copyrighted material.
 
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Pinook wrote:
Golux13 wrote:
.... IP address downloaded a particular song.

Downloading a song is making a copy of that song. Copying is one of the exclusive rights bundled into the package known as "copyright." As a definitional matter, then, downloading a song is a copyright infringement.

From there, questions of fair use and whether the copyright owner gives enough fucks to come after a particular downloader will determine how much trouble, if any, the downloader gets into.
I think standard practice is to prosecute uploading the song though - maybe you've got the song from where-ever - but if your IP address uploads it then they have a clearer case - it doesn't matter where your copy of the song came from - they've shown that your IP address has distributed copyrighted material.


The biggest newsmaker cases have been the ones involving downloading, not uploading.
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Mac Mcleod
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Golux13 wrote:
Pinook wrote:
Golux13 wrote:
.... IP address downloaded a particular song.

Downloading a song is making a copy of that song. Copying is one of the exclusive rights bundled into the package known as "copyright." As a definitional matter, then, downloading a song is a copyright infringement.

From there, questions of fair use and whether the copyright owner gives enough fucks to come after a particular downloader will determine how much trouble, if any, the downloader gets into.
I think standard practice is to prosecute uploading the song though - maybe you've got the song from where-ever - but if your IP address uploads it then they have a clearer case - it doesn't matter where your copy of the song came from - they've shown that your IP address has distributed copyrighted material.


The biggest newsmaker cases have been the ones involving downloading, not uploading.


Are you sure? Because the ones I've heard of all used the illegal distribution to prosecute / sue with- not the downloading.

Some links would be helpful.

The article I found on tenebaum talks about downloading but then mentions "They said he made songs available on various sites including Napster, Morpheus, Kazaa and LimeWire, distributing songs to millions of other people. " in the middle. Making available is not downloading. This is what I was referring to above when I said with current p2p software when you download you are also uploading/distributing/making available.

Jammie Thomas-Rasset also turned on distribution and "making available" (which appears to have been discounted). It sounds like her trial is going very badly. She would have faced a lower fine if she physically stole the CD's in question. Her next step is apparently the supreme court.
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Mac Mcleod
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You have to assume today's secret will be tomorrow's open knowledge.

Piracy is a tricky business. If you are going to engage in it, you should consider programs like "safepeer" and a closed site.
 
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CHAPEL
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The funny thing is that crack down in one path, and three more pop up to counter it's effects.

I know personally I have stopped using P2P torrents downloading, and moved to using the old tried and true usenet.
 
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jimbrax wrote:
funnily enough i was just talking to someone this morning who uses usent and goes via SABnzbd. i looked at it but can't work out how to configure it


usenet today is easier than ever.

1. Get an account at a server like Astraweb. $10 a month.
2. Download the SABnzbd. Set it up to use SSl.
3. Use a site like http://nzbmatrix.com/nzb.php

Then click on the download you want, and off it goes. It's so much faster and safer than torrents.
 
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Damian
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jimbrax wrote:
uTorrent has an option to force encryption on the outgoing (uploading) data.

allegedly.

Which helps not in the least with this particular issue. The person receiving the data you upload has to be able to decrypt it, and when that 'person' is an RIAA bot recording who joins the swarm and sends it data...yeah.

Quote:
or you can go via a site like hidemyass:

http://www.hidemyass.com/

If you go with the VPN service, that could work. However, you will probably want to use a VPN provider not located in the US, which will kill your speed, because otherwise it's the same to send a subpoena for customer data to them as it is to your ISP.

As mentioned below, newsgroups are a vastly better choice most of the time.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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maxo-texas wrote:
Golux13 wrote:
Pinook wrote:
Golux13 wrote:
.... IP address downloaded a particular song.

Downloading a song is making a copy of that song. Copying is one of the exclusive rights bundled into the package known as "copyright." As a definitional matter, then, downloading a song is a copyright infringement.

From there, questions of fair use and whether the copyright owner gives enough fucks to come after a particular downloader will determine how much trouble, if any, the downloader gets into.
I think standard practice is to prosecute uploading the song though - maybe you've got the song from where-ever - but if your IP address uploads it then they have a clearer case - it doesn't matter where your copy of the song came from - they've shown that your IP address has distributed copyrighted material.


The biggest newsmaker cases have been the ones involving downloading, not uploading.


Are you sure? Because the ones I've heard of all used the illegal distribution to prosecute / sue with- not the downloading.

Some links would be helpful.

The article I found on tenebaum talks about downloading but then mentions "They said he made songs available on various sites including Napster, Morpheus, Kazaa and LimeWire, distributing songs to millions of other people. " in the middle. Making available is not downloading. This is what I was referring to above when I said with current p2p software when you download you are also uploading/distributing/making available.

Jammie Thomas-Rasset also turned on distribution and "making available" (which appears to have been discounted). It sounds like her trial is going very badly. She would have faced a lower fine if she physically stole the CD's in question. Her next step is apparently the supreme court.


Yeah, it looks like they're pushing both downloading and uploading/file-sharing (after all, if you're going to try to stomp out "piracy," why not throw everything possible at it).
 
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Justin Wertz
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Do people still use the "locker" sites like they used to? I'm wondering if downloading from sites like Rapidshare, or Mediafire can be tracked, without some sort of subpoena to the locker's ISP? All of these articles I read these days talk about torrents, so maybe no one uses the other sites anymore, or is it just that torrent sites are easier to track?
 
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PinkPiggy wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
Steam and iTunes have done more to counter piracy than any crackdown ever has.


Team Fortress Classic is dirt cheap and loads of fun! Steam! arrrh robot cool

TF2 is free and even more fun!
 
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