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Subject: Mixing the game types. rss

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Victor Puente
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Anyone else done this? Having played multiple games of both Imperium and Republica types my gaming group vastly prefers the Imperium 3 card petitioning rule. The other version fills up the pool too quickly and almost takes away any chance of manipulating what goods and clients people get.

However, the coliseum sucks. It's not that it's broken, many buildings are. But where those buildings give you greater options or resources they don't generally negatively impact your opponents. The Coliseum actually removes fun from the game as it removes clients. So we switched in the Domus Aurea.

We also switched the Forum for the Forum Romanum. The Forum win isn't really as big of an issue but I still feel like you should work a little harder for your alternate wins.

Playing by the Imperium rules meant the Circus got the nod over the Crane.

The only switch I'm unsure of is the Senate or Tribunal. More jacks get played in Imperium so Tribunal may actually be too strong.

Thought?

p.s. After owning the clamshell version for a few years I thought about getting in on the Kickstarter for the BB version but passed. Then a few months ago I walk into a local Gaming store going out of business and see a copy sitting on the shelf. It had been opened but never played and everything was complete. $15 later it was mine.
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Stephen Stewart
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Play it however you want...


Add the old style cards together with the BB edition to NEVER run out of cards again!!!
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Seisyll W.
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I totally agree - Colosseum is just filthy, while Domus Aurea is just occasionally nuts. However, neither are broken due to Palisades. Seems fine to swap them out since you're not unbalancing the colors of the deck. Great idea - thanks!
 
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Robert Seater
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Certain of the Rep cards will work under Imp, while others are not appropriate.

- Domus Aurea was created because of how much many people (like me) despised Coloseum. That change is completely orthogonal to the Rep/Imp rules, and either can be played in either edition without messing with balance. It's just a matter of taste.

- Forum Romanum, in contrast, was only updated to keep Forum balanced in the presence of Rep rules. So you should the old Forum under Imp rules. Forum gets easier to accomplish under Rep rules, and thus needed to be tweaked.

- Crane replacing Circus was a dual purpose change. Circus made no sense under Rep rules, and once the slot was available, I wanted to give Architect an early-game boost. I'm honest not sure what impact losing Circus will have under the Imp rules, but adding Crane will not hurt anything.

- Tribunal replacing Senate was motivated by Rep/Imp rule changed but will work either way. Under the Rep rules, people use jacks less, so the old Senate was weaker. It also annoyed me how much it depended on turn order (if two people had one), and how much it undermined the original intent of Jacks (to ensure that players can ALWAYS get a role they need) by making players afraid to play them (in fear of kingmaking the Senate Player). So, while I think either version will be balanced under the Imp rules, I personally prefer the Tribunal.



In summary, my assessment is as follows:
- Domus Aurea: definitely ok under IMP
- Forum Romanum: bad under IMP
- Crane: probably ok under IMP
- Tribunal: definitely ok under IMP

(Note: I was the developer for the new edition, so I can tell you the original intent. However, at this point others have played the revised rules more than I have, so I'm far from the definitive source on what is most fun. )
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Patrick Jamet
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Aren't the Sewers a little too overpowered when playing the 2 card petition?
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Robert Seater
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Pyjam wrote:
Aren't the Sewers a little too overpowered when playing the 2 card petition?

It's something that worries me, but I'm not sure.
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Patrick Jamet
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In our recent sessions, the Sewers were very popular. When built, the player was able to petition each time he wasn't thinking, adding two cards to his stockpile. At his turn, he used to lead Architect (with a petition, of course) each time in order to build anything, or Merchant. Once, he was able to build a Foundry in order to dry the pool completely. So, he was playing alone until his final victory.

Fortunately, we've removed the Wall. But even playing the Bridge wasn't enough to stop him.

It came to a point where each time a player drew a Sewers he tried to build it.

Later, I remembered that the Sewers weren't designed with the idea of a 2-card petition in mind. I think they need some kind of adjustement or they should be removed.
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Alain Laporte
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Pyjam wrote:
In our recent sessions, the Sewers were very popular. When built, the player was able to petition each time he wasn't thinking, adding two cards to his stockpile. At his turn, he used to lead Architect (with a petition, of course) each time in order to build anything, or Merchant. Once, he was able to build a Foundry in order to dry the pool completely. So, he was playing alone until his final victory.

Fortunately, we've removed the Wall. But even playing the Bridge wasn't enough to stop him.

It came to a point where each time a player drew a Sewers he tried to build it.

Later, I remembered that the Sewers weren't designed with the idea of a 2-card petition in mind. I think they need some kind of adjustement or they should be removed.


Well, just to mention that as the player in question who used the sewer, I lost something like 15 games out of 18 with three players. It simply happens that this card was drawn early in the game and selected as a good basis for a strategy. Yet If I had to choose with a scriptorium or a very simple road or latrina I would had started with that.

Thus as always there is a part of luck in your early hand that can give you an edge. There is a price for this, you risk to start a building that maybe you will not be able to finish as it requires three stones. Then I notice that the other players would somehow disregard architect and allow me to gather two of them.

Hope this opinion was helpful.
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Robert Seater
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Pyjam wrote:
In our recent sessions, the Sewers were very popular. When built, the player was able to petition each time he wasn't thinking, adding two cards to his stockpile. At his turn, he used to lead Architect (with a petition, of course) each time in order to build anything, or Merchant. Once, he was able to build a Foundry in order to dry the pool completely. So, he was playing alone until his final victory.

Fortunately, we've removed the Wall. But even playing the Bridge wasn't enough to stop him.

It came to a point where each time a player drew a Sewers he tried to build it.

Later, I remembered that the Sewers weren't designed with the idea of a 2-card petition in mind. I think they need some kind of adjustement or they should be removed.

I believe the best fix is that Sewers only captures one of the cards you play, even if playing multiple cards in a petition. Would that fix the issue?
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Patrick Jamet
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Ave Alain,

Welcome to the Geek.

You should mention that during the 12 first games or so, nobody realized how powerful were the Sewers, because we were too busy building the Bacchanalia or the Scriptorium. It's not like if you built the Sewers 18 times and it paid only 3. Then you unveiled all the power of this card and suddenly it became a favorite of us (and you stopped losing, not only for this reason however but because you played better).
 
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Patrick Jamet
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rseater wrote:
I believe the best fix is that Sewers only captures one of the cards you play, even if playing multiple cards in a petition. Would that fix the issue?

Maybe. We'll try but not in a near future, alas.

Thanks for this proposal.
 
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Jools Thomas
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I LOVE this thread, I now feel empowered to swap certain cards into and out of the deck in order to provide the play experience I'm after. Would anybody care to comment (maybe even Robert) on what might be swapped out in order to include any of the various promo cards? Such information would be invaluable.
 
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Robert Seater
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Jools wrote:
I LOVE this thread, I now feel empowered to swap certain cards into and out of the deck in order to provide the play experience I'm after. Would anybody care to comment (maybe even Robert) on what might be swapped out in order to include any of the various promo cards? Such information would be invaluable.


Here is a variant that attempts to demote Merchant/Craftsman, while promoting Architect/Laborer.

(1) Swap in all the Alternates, even if playing Imperial
Coloseum --> Domus Aurea
Forum --> Forum Romanum
Circus --> Crane
Senate --> Tribunal

(2) Swap in some promo cards
Market --> Domus
Basilica --> Plebeian Council
Academy --> Watermill
Atrium --> Castra Praetoria
Bridge --> Solarium
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