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Subject: Quick Squadron/Group Management rules rss

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Alan Barrett
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BATTLEPLAN #7 had some suggestions about this, and PBEMs have done a lot of detailed work on it. I've posted some quick and simple SOLO PLAY rules to run alongside the normal B-17: QOTS single-bomber game. I must stress that they make no pretence to great statistical or historical accuracy, but they DO add an extra dimension to the game without introducing complexity and paperwork, I think.
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Jim P
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But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you… And I will beat you.
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Waiting with baited breath.... or was that the garlic burrito I had last night?
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Alan Barrett
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Probably the garlic. Don't breathe out.....Sorry: don't hold your breath! These really are very quick'n'dirty guidelines, probably not for purists such as yourself (Buuuurp!).
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But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you… And I will beat you.
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This variant interested me as I have dabbled with a Group variant myself. I found your system simple yet intriguing to play. I did do a few modifications to adapt the die rolls to two D6’s rather than using a D20. I personally try to keep the native die system when setting up variants as it helps to keep things simple. But that’s just me.

I flew a test mission today, following is my results;

Files I used for this mission:

[filepage=83910][/filepage]
[filepage=84998][/filepage]

I also used my GAF Placement variant with the applicable variants.

Enemy attack chart modifications to 2xD6:
2 = Bomber Shot Down
3 = Bomber Damaged (3 hits)
4 = Bomber Damaged (4 hits)
5 = Miss
6 = Miss
7 = Miss
8 = Miss
9 = Bomber Shot Down
10 = Bomber Damaged (4 hits)
11 = Enemy Aircraft Damaged
12 = Enemy Aircraft Shot Down

Squadron Flak attack chart modifications to 2xD6:
2 = Miss
3 = Miss
4 = Miss
5 = Miss
6 = Miss
7 = Bomber Damaged (2 hits)
8 = Bomber Damaged (4 hits)
9 = Near Miss, Bomber Damaged (1 hit)
10 = BIP, Bomber Shot Down
11 = Miss
12 = Bomber Damaged (6 hits)

I also modified the sequence of attacks. I figured if my aircraft was attacked then every other aircraft in the squadron would be subjected to attack. So I revised the attack where I roll one D6 for every aircraft in the squadron. On a D6 of 5-6 that A/C would roll for damage on the above chart. I also roll 1D6 for the other two squadrons, it I rolled a 5 or 6 then I roll for those squadrons planes.

Similarly I altered the sequence for the Flak barrages to replicate the fighter attacks. I rolled damage for all the planes in my squadron. Rational being if I got hit then the altitude is zeroed in. In the same fashion I will roll for all the planes in squadron below us too. Also I added a modifier depending on the intensity of the flak. Heavy I leave alone, Medium Flak a -1 and Light Flak a -2.

After one play I think this worked alright, but I would like to do a few more runs.

Below is my short version AAR:

Target: Rommilly-sur-sein France
Group Position: High
Bomber Position: #6 in Middle
Bomb Load: 10x 500 Lbs GP bombs
Weather: good / good
Flak: Medium / Light

Mission Description:
Zone 1 O/B: Rolled 2D6 of 4, loose formation

Zone 2 O/B: 1D6 of 1 equals No Waves

Zone 3 O/B: 1D6 of 1 equals No Waves

Zone 4 O/B: One Wave; 66 Random event

Target Zone 5 O/B: 1D6 of 1 equals one wave 2D6 of “64”
- Wave of 3 FW190s and 1 Bf109
- 190: 6 o’clock level – 3 hits; tail, sup / tail, rudder / tail stbd tail plane root [55pts]
- 190: 9 o’clock high – Top turret Destroyed fighter
- 190: 3 o’clock low – Ball turret damaged fighter (FBOA-2) subsequently missed bomber
- 109: 6 o’clock high – Radio room Destroyed fighter
Successive Attack;
- 190 10:30 high – missed
Bomber Group Fighter Attack Damage:
High Squadron: Auto Attack
Bomber 1 – Missed
Bomber 2 – Missed
Bomber 3 – No Attack (NA)
Bomber 4 – Enemy Aircraft (EA) Damaged
Bomber 5 – Missed
Middle Squadron; 1D6 = 5 (attacked)
Bomber 1 – (NA)
Bomber 2 – (NA)
Bomber 3 – Missed
Bomber 4 – Missed
Bomber 5 – Damaged 2 hits
Bomber 6 – Missed
Low Squadron; 1D6 = 3 (no attacked)


Flak O/B:
My bomber: 3x misses
Bomber Group Flak Damage:
High Squadron: Auto Attack
Bomber 1 – Missed
Bomber 2 – Damaged 2 Hits
Bomber 3 – BIP, Bomber lost
Bomber 4 – Damaged 1 Hit
Bomber 5 – Missed
Middle Squadron; on down auto attack
Bomber 1 – Damaged 4 Hits
Bomber 2 – Missed
Bomber 3 – Missed
Bomber 4 – Missed
Bomber 5 – Missed
Bomber 6 – Missed
Low Squadron; two down no attack
No flak

Bomb Run:
Normal D6=1; off / 2D6= 7; 0%
Variant: rolld 10x 1D6 = 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 6, 6 totaling 35 (didn’t count the 1s and 2s)
Above average.

Flak I/B:
My bomber: 1x miss 2x hits: 4 hits and 1 hit
5 hits; nose, sup / waist, sup / nose, sup / radio room, sup / tail, gunner SW
Bomber Group Flak Damage:
High Squadron: Auto Attack
Bomber 1 – Damaged 4 Hits
Bomber 2 – Damaged 4 Hits (total 6) [rolled to see if OOF. If 1D6 is more than boxes left then bomber drops out of formation. 1D6 = 3 Still in formation. I do this every turn from now on.]
Bomber 4 – Missed
Bomber 5 – Missed
Middle Squadron; on attack
No flak
Low Squadron; no attack
No flak

Target Zone 5 I/B:
2 Waves 21 & 66
Wave 21:
190 Vertical Dive Missed
Wave 66
Random Event 2D6=8 Tight Formation -1 to B-1 & 2 table

[rolled to see if Middle Squadron Bomber #2 is OOF. 1D6 = 3 Still in formation]

Zone 4 I/B:
0 Waves

[rolled to see if Middle Squadron Bomber #2 is OOF. 1D6 = 3 Still in formation]

Zone 3 I/B:
1 Wave 65 (JG26 Pilots: 1x Ace: 1x Experten: 3x Veterans)
109: 6 level – 5 Hits; tail, autopilot / port wing, sup / strb wing, flap / tail, rudder / tail, oxy hit
109: 4:30 level Top turret destroyed
109 (E): 9 low – 4 hits; waist, strb gunner LW / strb wing, sup / sup / radio room, interphone
109 (A): 6 level – missed
109: Vertical Dive – missed
Successive Attack 1;
109: 3 Hits; all wing, sup
109 (E): missed
109 (A): 3 Hits; tail, rudder root, / tail, rudder root (lost rudder) / tail, sup
Successive Attack 2;
109: missed
109 (E): Top Turret Destroyed
109 (A): 1 Hit; nose, sup

Bomber Group Fighter Attack Damage:
High Squadron; Auto Attack
Bomber 1 – Missed
Bomber 2 – Missed
Bomber 4 – Missed
Bomber 5 – Missed
Middle Squadron; 1D6 = 6 (attacked)
Bomber 1 – (NA)
Bomber 2 – Missed
Bomber 3 – (NA)
Bomber 4 – Missed
Bomber 5 – Missed
Bomber 6 – (NA)
Low Squadron; 1D6 = 3 (no attacked)
Bomber 1 – 2 Hits
Bomber 2 – (NA)
Bomber 3 – (NA)
Bomber 4 – (NA)
Bomber 5 – Missed
Bomber 6 – (NA)

[rolled to see if Middle Squadron Bomber #2 is OOF. 1D6 = 6 Out of formation]

Zone 2 I/B:
0 Waves

Zone 1 I/B:
Landed OK

Bomber Group Return / Landing:
High Squadron;
Bomber 1 [4 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = 11 (yes) / Landing Roll D20 = 17 (OK)
Bomber 2 [6 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = 2 (no) / Landing Roll D20 = NA
Bomber 3 [10 Damage] – Lost over target - BIP
Bomber 4 [1 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = 11 (yes) / Landing Roll D20 = 8 (OK)
Bomber 5 [3 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = 16 (yes) / Landing Roll D20 = 16 (OK)
Bomber 6 Players A/C
Middle Squadron;
Bomber 1 – [4 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = 5 (yes) / Landing Roll D20 = 4 (crashed)
Bomber 2 – [0 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = auto (yes) / Landing Roll D20 = auto (OK)
Bomber 3 – [1 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = 11 (yes) / Landing Roll D20 = 12 (OK)
Bomber 4 – [4 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = 4 (no) / Landing Roll D20 = NA
Bomber 5 – [2 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = 8 (yes) / Landing Roll D20 = 4 (crashed)
Bomber 6 – [10 Damage] – Shot Down by Fighters
Low Squadron;
Bomber 1 – [2 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = 18 (yes) / Landing Roll D20 = 13 (OK)
Bomber 2 – [0 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = auto (yes) / Landing Roll D20 = auto (OK)
Bomber 3 – [0 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = auto (yes) / Landing Roll D20 = auto (OK)
Bomber 4 – [0 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = auto (yes) / Landing Roll D20 = auto (OK)
Bomber 5 – [0 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = auto (yes) / Landing Roll D20 = auto (OK)
Bomber 6 – [0 Damage] – Return Roll D20 = auto (yes) / Landing Roll D20 = auto (OK)

Notes:
This was an interesting variant. I think it still needs some tweaking but have to play it a few more times. I like the EA attack chart and the flak chart but the landing and return chart is a bit different. I think some numbers need to be altered.

Thank you Alan for the interesting variant,

Jim P cool
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Alan Barrett
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Thank YOU. What a thorough response (quality, as usual). Tweak away - and I've thought on about introducing 'alien' dice; you're right to retain the d6s, I think. The numbers probably do need a bit (even a lot) of adjustment - but I had a feeling there's something workable here for solo squadron play. It doesn't replace multi-player PBEM/PBForum etc., and nor was that ever its intention. This feedback is very, very useful indeed. Thanks, again.
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Stefano Rebessi
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I've made a couple of missions as a test and I have one more question.

If my ship gets out of formation, what happens ? Do I keep rolling the dices for the other ships that are in formation ?
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Alan Barrett
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If the player bomber is OOF, then assume that any attack on it is NOT an attack in isolation - it triggers an attack on the whole formation, too. This can be rationalised as enemy air activity being pretty lively overall. Jasta6 made suggestions for non-player bombers OOF: in my original runs, I did not factor this in to be honest. Pimp it how you see fit. If three enemy a/c attack an OOF player bomber, the formation suffers 3 attacks etc. (in response to your question elsewhere). Tweak as you see fit - and if you've got a way of doing it that works and is speedy, let me know!

Regards,
Al.
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Stefano Rebessi
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Ah now I understand, so I have to make a single attack for every E/A engaging my ship and not for wave.

Thanks for clarification!
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Jim P
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KOS83 wrote:
Ah now I understand, so I have to make a single attack for every E/A engaging my ship and not for wave.

Thanks for clarification!


Yes I see this now as well. I too missed that you roled up the same number go attacks as the players bomber took on the rest of the group.

Thanks!
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Alan Barrett
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I was in a bit of a rush to get these rough rules out before I went in to hospital! All is better now and I can try them out properly myself since I'm not yet returning to work full-time. Not yet! Yes - the group takes an attack WHENEVER the player's a/c takes one. Thanks for your patience, everyone! Now see how many of those ships make it back! It's worth bearing in mind that the ONLY ship using detailed QOTS rules is YOUR ship; the rest is necessarily 'impressionistic', and it needs to be in order to make these rules for SOLO squadron/group management quick and easy as an add-on. It's still perfectly possible, of course, to run an 18-ship mission using the main rules for each a/c, but that IS very time-consuming.
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Alan Barrett
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jasta6 wrote:
KOS83 wrote:
Ah now I understand, so I have to make a single attack for every E/A engaging my ship and not for wave.

Thanks for clarification!


Yes I see this now as well. I too missed that you roled up the same number go attacks as the players bomber took on the rest of the group.

Thanks!


I didn't explain these rules too well, did I? See additional remarks!

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Alan Barrett
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By the way, the flak and bombing run cards can be used to work out squadron/group bombing performance. Rather than having ALL aircraft bomb, run ONE flak and bomb run for each squadron and assume all surviving a/c in that squadron bomb with comparable accuracy. The rating on the bomb run becomes a SQUADRON rating. For a GROUP rating, take the mean of all three bomb runs. Again, these are not yet fully-formed, detailed rules, so either (a) ignore or (b) use as you see fit.

Oh - I've also introduced a new procedure when I game this with the flak card: if a DOUBLE other than 3/3 or 4/4 (which are 'hits') is thrown (so 1/1, 2/2, 5/5 or 6/6), then ONE flak token only is placed on the number on the row BUT the two dice are thrown again. This can mean that there might be three or more flak bursts on the same row as the a/c, instead of the usual two. If another double is thrown, the procedure is repeated. The a/c does not move forward a row until this is resolved.

*You might want to see the discussion about TARGET DIFFICULTY and squadron/group solo play, too*
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Stefano Rebessi
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since I'd like to start a solo campaign using as many aircrafts as possible, I want to use your rules Alan,

the only problem is that I'm missing how to know the bomb run percentage worked out. I know you've split in different ratings from 0 to 66.

But how do I roll these ? Really, I find myself in a bit of a problem. I can't find hints on where to look at.
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Alan Barrett
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Each sqaudron throws 10 dice, each scoring 1-6 on the target ring. Add the result of all hits (not 1s and 2s) to generate the bombing score.

This is the only occasion when the rules for squadron performance REPLACE the B-17: QotS rules. For everything else, they run in parallel, with only the player-bomber using full QotS rules.

Each of the three squadrons 'bombs', including the squadron which has the player-bomber in it - and the result of the bombing is scored and rated. Percentage 'on target' can be worked out by looking at how many bombs (out of 10) fall 'on target'. 1s and 2s are misses, of course. If, for example, scores of 6,5,5,1,3,4,4,2,3 and 1 were obtained, then 7/10 are on target = 70%.

The overall success or otherwise of a group mission depends on target difficulty and meeting the different criteria.

I don't know if this answers your question clearly. Get back to me, if not.

- Alan.
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Stefano Rebessi
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ok,

do I have to roll for every plane or only for each squadron ? And how many times ?

I'm a bit confused.
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Alan Barrett
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KOS83 wrote:
ok,

do I have to roll for every plane or only for each squadron ? And how many times ?

I'm a bit confused.


Have you downloaded the 'target' sheet and the rules about selecting target difficulty?

Each squadron bombs. A squadron result is calculated by scoring its hits on target (where 1s and 2s are 'misses'). You do not roll for every plane, although I chose 10 dice rolls since it represents the average bomb load (10 x500lb) of a single B-17. The bombing score then represents a sort of 'mean' result for the squadron (although there are deductions to be made if the squadron has sustained losses).

The score for each squadron is made up of ten dice rolls added up, giving a rating numerically and also a qualitative description of success - 'Average', 'Good' etc. Mission success FOR THE GROUP depends on meeting criteria set out in the Target Difficulty Rating system: success for an 'undemanding' mission will differ from a 'challenging' mission, for example, in terms of the requirements - say an 'Average' result by at least two squadrons or 'Above Average' by three squadrons etc. Let me know if you can't find the required stuff and I'll e-mail to you. - Al.
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Stefano Rebessi
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I do recall on downloading and having files like these, but If I may suggest, why don't you make a sum up of the rules instead of having multiple files ?

This would be much easier to understand I think.

Thanks for the clarification, this weekend I'll give it a shot.

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Alan Barrett
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KOS83 wrote:
I do recall on downloading and having files like these, but If I may suggest, why don't you make a sum up of the rules instead of having multiple files ?

This would be much easier to understand I think.

Thanks for the clarification, this weekend I'll give it a shot.



This is exactly what I've been working on in my spare time. It's on its way! All the best, Alan.
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Stefano Rebessi
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Yay! Great!

Looking forward to see it online then! In the meantime I'm going to give it a shot on Saturday or Sunday.

Thanks Alan!
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Alan Barrett
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Buon divertimento - e 'in bocca al lupo', buona fortuna! 'Straighten up and fly right' - Al.

KOS83 wrote:
Yay! Great!

Looking forward to see it online then! In the meantime I'm going to give it a shot on Saturday or Sunday.

Thanks Alan!
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Alan Barrett
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The Group Mission procedures are now uploaded in the files section as a pdf (34 pages, though).- Al.
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