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Subject: Balanced Builds For Fun Games rss

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Adam Morgan
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I have the core set and one of each expansion at the moment. I'm not planning on entering tourneys or anything too serious, but just want to have interesting, fun, and balanced battles with friends.

We'll certainly be coming up with some of our own builds, but do you guys and gals have any suggestions for balanced Rebel and Imperial builds with this number of ships?

Also, what is the sweet spot for points with this many ships? 80? 100?

Thanks in advance!
 
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Jeff Dunford
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Pifecta wrote:
I have the core set and one of each expansion at the moment. I'm not planning on entering tourneys or anything too serious, but just want to have interesting, fun, and balanced battles with friends.

We'll certainly be coming up with some of our own builds, but do you guys and gals have any suggestions for balanced Rebel and Imperial builds with this number of ships?

Also, what is the sweet spot for points with this many ships? 80? 100?

Thanks in advance!


I'd say 60-80 points. You'll have trouble getting much higher than that with your Imperial side. Besides, even 60 points makes for a fun session that plays in about an hour or so.

I recommend playing around with these resources:
Rebel Squad Builder
Empire Squad Builder

Do whatever you want. If you want a suggestion, for 60 points with your ships, I might try something like:
Empire:
- Darth Vader w/ Squad Leader
- Mauler Mithel
- Academy Pilot

Rebels:
- Wedge Antilles w/ Swarm Tactics + R5-K6
- Garven Dreis w/ R2 Astromech

If you go up to 80 points, you might want to add a Y-Wing with an Ion Cannon to the Rebel list (maybe Dutch Vander w/ Ion Cannon + R5-K6, Garvin Dreis w/ R5-D8, and a Rookie Pilot), and maybe try 4 Academy Pilot TIE Fighters with Lord Vader (and 3 points to spend on an upgrade of your choice).
*edit* Oops, you don't have 4 TIE fighters. Go with 3 named TIE pilots and Lord Vader, and arm them to the teeth!
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Bob Smithy

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I have your exact build, and the max points you can get to is 92. I play with 65 myself, as you can get in all the ships if you really want.
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If you are short on the empire ships though for higher points... don't you lose some strength by playing high pilots at the expense of not having more ships in the game? Isn't the swarm of Tie's part of the balance in the game?

My fear is the OP might find that running 3 high skill pilots on the empire side - VS. even 2 decked out rebel pilots might be hard to beat? OR is it really that even?

(I only ask as in tournaments you often see the imperial pilots playing with only 1 or 2 names pilots - then a swarm of other ships... seems to be the tactic that is most effective.)
 
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Jeff Dunford
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SoylentRed wrote:
If you are short on the empire ships though for higher points... don't you lose some strength by playing high pilots at the expense of not having more ships in the game? Isn't the swarm of Tie's part of the balance in the game?

My fear is the OP might find that running 3 high skill pilots on the empire side - VS. even 2 decked out rebel pilots might be hard to beat? OR is it really that even?

(I only ask as in tournaments you often see the imperial pilots playing with only 1 or 2 names pilots - then a swarm of other ships... seems to be the tactic that is most effective.)


Read the OP. He isn't interested in tournaments. He's interested in playing a fun, balanced game with his buddies using the ships he owns.

In a tournament, you might want 8x TIE fighters. The OP owns 3.

P.S. Due to not having lots of TIE fighters, I'd recommend against using Luke Skywalker or R2-D2 (separate or in combination). In a 1-on-1 or even 2-on-1 confrontation (as the match is wearing on), I've found that the TIE fighters/TIE Advanced ships won't be able to do enough damage to finish them off. Luke/R2 stalls the game and makes it less fun/balanced. We had one game that came down to an undamaged Darth Vader vs. a Rookie Pilot (X-wing) with R2-D2. It took about an hour before the Rookie finally finished off Vader, who had only landed one point of hull damage (reduced the shields to 0 about 15 times, but R2 just kept putting them back up). So unless you can field at least a 5-ship squad on the Empire side, I'd avoid using Luke/R2 when looking for a fun balanced game. But feel free to try them out if you really want.
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iNano78 wrote:
SoylentRed wrote:
If you are short on the empire ships though for higher points... don't you lose some strength by playing high pilots at the expense of not having more ships in the game? Isn't the swarm of Tie's part of the balance in the game?

My fear is the OP might find that running 3 high skill pilots on the empire side - VS. even 2 decked out rebel pilots might be hard to beat? OR is it really that even?

(I only ask as in tournaments you often see the imperial pilots playing with only 1 or 2 names pilots - then a swarm of other ships... seems to be the tactic that is most effective.)


Read the OP. He isn't interested in tournaments. He's interested in playing a fun, balanced game with his buddies using the ships he owns.

In a tournament, you might want 8x TIE fighters. The OP owns 3.


I am fully aware of that... that was my point in asking how I did.

The OP wants a balanced game... I don't believe 3 named Ties are really balanced against 2 named xwings... I'm skeptical as to whether or not it would really be balanced with only having 3 Ties. I used the buildouts that people use in tournaments merely to suggest it might not be balanced.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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SoylentRed wrote:
I am fully aware of that... that was my point in asking how I did.

The OP wants a balanced game... I don't believe 3 named Ties are really balanced against 2 named xwings... I'm skeptical as to whether or not it would really be balanced with only having 3 Ties. I used the buildouts that people use in tournaments merely to suggest it might not be balanced.


I see.

At 60 points, he could go with 2x Academy Pilots, 1x Tempest Squadron Pilot (Advanced), and Night Beast. That at least puts all 4 Imperial ships in play. But that might make the Imperial side too strong for a 2 ship Rebel side. Definitely worth trying if the Rebels routinely win the 3 vs 2 match-up.
 
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Adam Morgan
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Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'd love to get all 7 ships (3 TIE, 1 TIE Adv, 2 X Wing, 1 Y Wing) involved if possible. Maybe a 90 point build would be good for this?
 
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Pifecta wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'd love to get all 7 ships (3 TIE, 1 TIE Adv, 2 X Wing, 1 Y Wing) involved if possible. Maybe a 90 point build would be good for this?


Give it a shot and let us know how it goes...

I THINK that you will see the rebels 3 faring better than the imperial 4... but maybe not! Let us know!
 
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Peter O
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Pifecta wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'd love to get all 7 ships (3 TIE, 1 TIE Adv, 2 X Wing, 1 Y Wing) involved if possible. Maybe a 90 point build would be good for this?


Don't worry about points at the outset. Instead make an interesting looking rebel side and then count the points. Then make the imperial side. I suggest the rebel side first as with fewer ships and pilot choices you have less options. The imperials have a little more granularity in their selections.
 
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Bob Smithy

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tranenturm wrote:
Pifecta wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'd love to get all 7 ships (3 TIE, 1 TIE Adv, 2 X Wing, 1 Y Wing) involved if possible. Maybe a 90 point build would be good for this?


Don't worry about points at the outset. Instead make an interesting looking rebel side and then count the points. Then make the imperial side. I suggest the rebel side first as with fewer ships and pilot choices you have less options. The imperials have a little more granularity in their selections.


I think you switched rebel and imperial.
 
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I agree with probably limiting the use of R2D2. I made a game with Luke/R2D2 and Wedge with something to show my brother in law. Then I matched the points on the Imp side. I killed Wedge easily but I don't think we were ever going to kill Luke, nor he us without crazy lucky rolls or really dumb maneuvering.

I exaggerate a little, but we did have to quit before finishing the game.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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Pifecta wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'd love to get all 7 ships (3 TIE, 1 TIE Adv, 2 X Wing, 1 Y Wing) involved if possible. Maybe a 90 point build would be good for this?


If you want all your ships in play, I'd go with 80 points. Adding 10 more points will make your Rebel side stronger (better pilots; room for Proton Torpedoes), but it won't do your Imperial side much good (unless you pick up another TIE Fighter expansion)... so I think you'll find that 90 points won't be as evenly balanced with the available ships.

Keep in mind that a named X-wing is about even against 2 TIE fighters and you'll see that 4 vs 3 is skewed towards the Rebels unless you do something to weaken the Rebel side (e.g. take away all their abilities).
 
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Peter O
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Hdnggrnchrg wrote:
tranenturm wrote:
Pifecta wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'd love to get all 7 ships (3 TIE, 1 TIE Adv, 2 X Wing, 1 Y Wing) involved if possible. Maybe a 90 point build would be good for this?


Don't worry about points at the outset. Instead make an interesting looking rebel side and then count the points. Then make the imperial side. I suggest the rebel side first as with fewer ships and pilot choices you have less options. The imperials have a little more granularity in their selections.


I think you switched rebel and imperial.


How so? The imperials have a wide range pilots so while they may not have as many upgrades, they do have a wider range of named pilots. Plus, with cheaper base ship cost of 12, getting an extra ship in isn't that hard. If you build the imperial side first you can end up in certain point ranges that make for awkward rebel point buys and not very satisfying builds.

So the OP wants to use all his ships. The cheapest possible 3 ship rebel fleet he can make is 60 points. The cheapest 4 ship imperial fleet is 57 points. So 60 is the bare minimum. So the final build might be around 70, 75, or 80 points to make it interesting. Too high and you're simply forced to the maximum pilots and equipment with very little tactical choice. But interesting is in the eye of the beholder. The OP thought 90 points but I would find that too close to his max possible fleet, limiting his options. But I'm only guessing. Maxing out the fleet may be what he finds interesting. So start with a side, build something you find interesting, then build the other side to match it point wise.
 
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Eric B.
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If you want to use all of the ships you own, I'd recommend trying games at 85 points with these two builds. The Rebels might have a slight advantage in ship numbers, but the Imperial list does have an advantage with these lists in that all of their ships (save Backstabber) will move after the Rebels and shoot first.

My favorite thing about these two lists is that they'll really challenge and reward players with regards to placement and positioning. The synergy from Dutch and Garven and the protection Biggs can offer when he's in the right spots allow for a lot of decisions in movement. Howlrunner, Mauler, and Backstabber also reward solid positioning. So these lists will be nice in the sense that they should reward the players for flying well. If I were to run anymore demo games again, I'd probably use these two lists.


Dutch Vander + R5-K6 + Ion Cannon = 30
Garven Dreis + Proton Torpedoes = 30
Biggs Darklighter = 25

Darth Vader + Determination + Concussion Missile = 34
Howlrunner = 18
Mauler Mithel = 17
Backstabber = 16
TOTALS = 85pts
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Adam Morgan
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RogueThirteen wrote:
If you want to use all of the ships you own, I'd recommend trying games at 85 points with these two builds. The Rebels might have a slight advantage in ship numbers, but the Imperial list does have an advantage with these lists in that all of their ships (save Backstabber) will move after the Rebels and shoot first.

My favorite thing about these two lists is that they'll really challenge and reward players with regards to placement and positioning. The synergy from Dutch and Garven and the protection Biggs can offer when he's in the right spots allow for a lot of decisions in movement. Howlrunner, Mauler, and Backstabber also reward solid positioning. So these lists will be nice in the sense that they should reward the players for flying well. If I were to run anymore demo games again, I'd probably use these two lists.


Dutch Vander + R5-K6 + Ion Cannon = 30
Garven Dreis + Proton Torpedoes = 30
Biggs Darklighter = 25

Darth Vader + Determination + Concussion Missile = 34
Howlrunner = 18
Mauler Mithel = 17
Backstabber = 16
TOTALS = 85pts


Rogue, this is the exact kind of thing I'm looking for. Thanks so much. Also appreciate everyone else's input as well.
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Bob Smithy

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tranenturm wrote:
Hdnggrnchrg wrote:
tranenturm wrote:
Pifecta wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'd love to get all 7 ships (3 TIE, 1 TIE Adv, 2 X Wing, 1 Y Wing) involved if possible. Maybe a 90 point build would be good for this?


Don't worry about points at the outset. Instead make an interesting looking rebel side and then count the points. Then make the imperial side. I suggest the rebel side first as with fewer ships and pilot choices you have less options. The imperials have a little more granularity in their selections.


I think you switched rebel and imperial.


How so? The imperials have a wide range pilots so while they may not have as many upgrades, they do have a wider range of named pilots. Plus, with cheaper base ship cost of 12, getting an extra ship in isn't that hard. If you build the imperial side first you can end up in certain point ranges that make for awkward rebel point buys and not very satisfying builds.

So the OP wants to use all his ships. The cheapest possible 3 ship rebel fleet he can make is 60 points. The cheapest 4 ship imperial fleet is 57 points. So 60 is the bare minimum. So the final build might be around 70, 75, or 80 points to make it interesting. Too high and you're simply forced to the maximum pilots and equipment with very little tactical choice. But interesting is in the eye of the beholder. The OP thought 90 points but I would find that too close to his max possible fleet, limiting his options. But I'm only guessing. Maxing out the fleet may be what he finds interesting. So start with a side, build something you find interesting, then build the other side to match it point wise.


I have this exact quantity of ships. You can't just add in another academy pilot, because every TIE is now valuable to have. 3 ties doesn't leave much wiggle room if making an interesting rebel squad first.
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Adam Morgan
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Bob,

Since you have the exact same ships that I do, do you have any builds you'd be willing to share that have been fun or interesting to play?
 
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Bob Smithy

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Pifecta wrote:
Bob,

Since you have the exact same ships that I do, do you have any builds you'd be willing to share that have been fun or interesting to play?


65pts

Use the cheapest pilots with all the ships, and put Darth Vader in the TIE Advanced and an Ion Cannon in the y-wing. It's big without being complicated.
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Timothy Adamson
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iNano78 wrote:

Luke/R2 stalls the game and makes it less fun/balanced. We had one game that came down to an undamaged Darth Vader vs. a Rookie Pilot (X-wing) with R2-D2. It took about an hour before the Rookie finally finished off Vader, who had only landed one point of hull damage (reduced the shields to 0 about 15 times, but R2 just kept putting them back up).


Couldn't using the missions help here?
 
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Pifecta wrote:
I have the core set and one of each expansion at the moment. I'm not planning on entering tourneys or anything too serious, but just want to have interesting, fun, and balanced battles with friends.

We'll certainly be coming up with some of our own builds, but do you guys and gals have any suggestions for balanced Rebel and Imperial builds with this number of ships?

Also, what is the sweet spot for points with this many ships? 80? 100?

Thanks in advance!


I also have 1 core and 1 of each first wave expansion.

These are some 90 pts builds I have created for casual games (which you can use in any rebel/imperial combination):

Rebel squad 1
Bigs Darklighter with R2F2 = 28 pts
Wedge Antilles with R2 Astromech and Expert Handling = 32 pts
"Dutch" Vander with R5K6 and Ion Cannon Turret = 30 pts
Total = 90 pts

Rebel squad 2
Luke Skywalker with R2D2, Expert Handling and Proton Torpedoes = 38 pts
Red Squadron Pilot with R2 Astromech and Proton Torpedoes = 28 pts
Gold Squadron Pilot with R5 Astromech and Ion Cannon Turret = 24 pts
Total = 90 pts

Rebel squad 3
Horton Salm with R5K6, 2 Proton Torpedoes and Ion Cannon Turret = 40 pts
Rookie Pilot with Proton Torpedoes = 25 pts
Rookie Pilot with Proton Torpedoes = 25 pts
Total = 90 pts

Imperial squad 1
Darth Vader with Squad Leader and Concussion Missiles = 35 pts
"Howlrunner" with Swarm Tactics = 20 pts
"Mauler" Mithel with Marksmanship = 20 pts
"Night Beast" = 15 pts
Total = 90 pts

Imperial squad 2
"Howlrunner" with Squad Leader = 20 pts
"Mauler" Mithel with Expert Handling = 19 pts
"Winged Gundark" = 15 pts
Maarek Stele with Marksmanship and Concussion Missiles = 34 pts
Total = 88 pts

Imperial squad 3
Darth Vader with Marksmanship and Cluster Missiles = 36 pts
"Howlrunner" with Swarm Tactics = 20 pts
"Backstabber" = 16 pts
"Dark Curse" = 16 pts
Total = 88 pts


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tom brown
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with such small forces i would not use named pilots, as their abilities can drastically change the outcome of such small games. Also, you are never going to get a balanced game with 3 rebel ships against 4 imperial ships. If 1 x wing is equal to the tie advanced, 3 tie fighters are never equal to another x wing and a y wing, no matter what named tie pilots you use they all have the same stat line.
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Grey2ham Grey2ham
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Hi there, signed up just to comment on this.
I have the same set up and me and a friend have played 10-12 games with it. Typically we find multiples of 30 work well. Although we've had very balanced games at 86 points (random number we picked out of the air).
We normally find that the imperials win even with only 4 ships versus 3, although the margin of victory is normally 3 hull points when playing at 86 points. At various point totals we've only had one rebel win.
I think the agile high skill ties are easily a match for lower skilled rebels as they can barrel role out of and into firing arcs when they move 2nd. My dice also seem to favour the imps though! Wedge missing Vader at range 1 only to be hit for 3 damage .
All the suggested builds are good, but I've found designing my squad to be one of the most fun parts of the game! Watching a plan either work or fall to pieces is the good part!
The next game we play we're going to give the rebels a 10% point advantage to see if we can get some rebel wins. My friend and I consider ourselves equally skilled, normally our games are close.
Any tips on playing as rebels would be welcome!
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