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Subject: Wait... am I assembling these minis as I play? rss

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Neomaxim Noefaith
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Ok... so the Monster Hunter fan in me, and some less than concrete language in the Kickstarter has left me confused.

Are these "armor sets" modular? Am I using a base-mini and attaching say "gloves", when I get them from a particular monster, or am I swapping out the naked mini for the first armor tier, etc...?

I ask only because while the former would be amazing, I cannot imagine it working at this scale.

Plus, I expect to assemble a mini once, prime it, paint it, etc... But don't know how that will be possible if i'm expected to pop off the arms and now attach "Pheonix Gloves", mid-campaign.

And yet... all the weapons are being included as seperate pieces?

I would LOVE for this to work as it does in my imagination, but it sounds like a production nightmare for even the most experienced companies, let alone a guy who doesn't really say who his production partners are.
 
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Greg R.
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You have to build them and glue or pin together. Some ambitious people are magnetizing the connection points to make the armor/weapons interchangeable.

The game will come with so many bodies that you can make your one character several different ways represented by different minis. As you progress and your armor changes you would swap out the current mini for a different, upgraded one.
 
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Neomaxim Noefaith
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Darn.

I assumed as much, but thought this game was pulling something insanely ambitious out of its rear. What a shame though. If the spirit of the game is upgrading piece by piece, and looting in an ever-changing, monster-hunter, inspired way, having minis with gear sets i've assembled in advance takes away that tactile, "i'm always changing" kind of thing.

 
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Greg R.
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Yeah, I understand that and kind of feel the same way. I might look into figuring out how to do the magnetization technique but what I am really planning on doing is painting the parts and leaving them disassembled. Then as game play progresses attach the parts with magic putty or something like that for a temporary hold. We won't be moving around the minis too much during game play so I think it will work out.

Disclaimer: This is my crazy idea so I'm not suggesting you do this as well.
 
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I'm pretty sure you are constantly changing gear in this game, and the whole point of the different armor sets is to represent this. It really wouldn't make any sense for replayability's sake for it not to be modular. I have asked him this question and have yet to get a response. By requiring glue and/or pinning/magnets in order to accomplish this, he is alienating a lot of non-hobbyists. We shall see I guess..
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Joe Loviska

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frankencowx wrote:
I'm pretty sure you are constantly changing gear in this game, and the whole point of the different armor sets is to represent this. It really wouldn't make any sense for replayability's sake for it not to be modular. I have asked him this question and have yet to get a response. By requiring glue and/or pinning/magnets in order to accomplish this, he is alienating a lot of non-hobbyists. We shall see I guess..


He has said early in the comments section of the kickstarter that the figures will have to be glued/pinned/magnetized. I don't think there is a good way to make snap on pieces that are of the quality he is producing and not break right away.
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Robert Kingery
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From looking at the images of the miniatures the armor/fur/monster parts are attached to them. You can build the miniature as you please and it looks like you will have a lot of miniatures to do different builds.

I plan on doing different builds and painting them up than switching them throughout the progression of the game. (If that is how the rules go. That is the big mystery right now though).
 
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Greg R.
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Darkson wrote:

I plan on doing different builds and painting them up than switching them throughout the progression of the game. (If that is how the rules go. That is the big mystery right now though).


This is what I've heard around the intertubes. Make up the character builds and swap figures in and out as you progress. My only concern with this is what if I want to keep my Phoenix sword and wear Dragon armor? Am I screwed? What about if I want to change from wielding a sword to using a bow as my primary weapon?

Im assuming that the armor and weapon upgrades are so much better from level to level that one will want to upgrade everything to the new complete sets as you get them.
 
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Neomaxim Noefaith
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TurquoiseKnight wrote:
Darkson wrote:

I plan on doing different builds and painting them up than switching them throughout the progression of the game. (If that is how the rules go. That is the big mystery right now though).


This is what I've heard around the intertubes. Make up the character builds and swap figures in and out as you progress. My only concern with this is what if I want to keep my Phoenix sword and wear Dragon armor? Am I screwed? What about if I want to change from wielding a sword to using a bow as my primary weapon?

Im assuming that the armor and weapon upgrades are so much better from level to level that one will want to upgrade everything to the new complete sets as you get them.


You're probably right... which is, in my mind, a HUGE shame, as the game could easily have been my "Holy Grail" game. Campaign co-op, influenced by Monster Hunter and Warhammer Quest? Dear God might that be sweet.

Problem is... I know how unreasonable a gear "hot-swap" mini would be production-wise, but I feel it is what it would take to elevate this game from what seems to be far more linear a progression.

Worse, aesthetically, is if different set bonuses ARE better in different encounters, meaning at some point my paper-doll won't be represented on my mini, making the concept of "loot set" miniatures moot. In that case, dump all that plastic from the box and cut costs, OR funnel it into more content/encounters/enemy models, etc.

As it stands, it lacks an experienced design sensibility one way or the other, and just ends up seeming like another of those Kickstarters fueled by selling me a million models and an undercooked game design.

Hopefully further info will clarify this, as i'm really wanting to love this one.
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Donnie Clark
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Although I LOVE the miniatures featuring various gear sets and load-outs, I fear that I'm more in love with the idea itself. The practical application of hot-swapping minis and gear seems more trouble than it is worth during gameplay, considering that it is strictly aesthetic.

While I CAN swap the miniatures/parts, I don't know that I ever WOULD once the novelty wears thin.
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Neomaxim Noefaith
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You're probably right, and i'm sure it might turn out the same way with my group. The problem is, if that happens, then again, we have a scenario where the VAST majority of the plastic in the box, isn't used to make the game any better, based on what we know.

So if it is four players, versus monsters, i'd rather have a bunch more monsters which add meat AND aesthetic appeal, versus modeling kits that currently exceed the dreaded Games Workshop, in terms of pricing.
 
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Greg R.
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At this moment there's 40 days left to see how this plays out. Hopefully we some rules soon.
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Donnie Clark
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TurquoiseKnight wrote:
At this moment there's 40 days left to see how this plays out. Hopefully we some rules soon.


True. I'll shut up until then. whistle
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Neomaxim Noefaith
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Well in the interviews we see him saying he won't be speaking about the rules and mechanics much as he doesn't want to "spoil" anything. He also says he will not be making the rules available at any point prior to release.

I find that to be a terrifying perspective as a potential investor.
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Keegan Fink
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TurquoiseKnight wrote:
At this moment there's 40 days left to see how this plays out. Hopefully we some rules soon.

With a detailed gameplay video due out this week.
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Greg R.
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Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
I find that to be a terrifying perspective as a potential investor.


I agree. I'm leaning toward "yes, I'm going to spend about $200 to get the game and some extras"..... for now. But if things start getting sketchy, I'll back out.

I missed the Sedition Wars KS and if it gets listed on Ebay before KD:M is over, I will definitely back out and spend my money on that.
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Adam Poots
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My intent was to provide hobbyists with as many options as possible and allow a gaming group to decide its exact rulings when it comes to miniature assembly and what needs to be represented. The level of immersion is up to you.

When I looked into snap options, I quickly found that it would greatly impact the quality, flexibility and compatibility between armor kit sets. I decided to go with a ball socket system which can still be modified with pinning / magnetizing techniques.

I am working on a gameplay video, I am thinking I will make an overview and then do a live play session a little later. And I might add some samples from the rulebook that cover some of the basic mechanics. The game itself is really pretty simple, but the customization / variety make it require a bit of thought in how to best present it.

I will be trying my best to answer any questions that come up here and I apologize for my unfamiliarity with BBG. I know the site and have found some of my favorite games thru here, but I admit I know very little about maintaining a "game" page.
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John Cosgrove
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Guys, I'm totally with the creator on this with regards to giving options to the user - why are we suddenly worried about whether or not our static miniature perfectly represents our gear anyway??

Just stop a sec and think about any other dungeon/loot board game - you simply don't have that luxury. At a minimum, where you assemble the KD: M minis into set configurations, you will change your miniature dynamically to represent major gear type upgrades (like fur, bone, metal)... and that is an unprecedented and magnificent gaming experience!!

Now, for the HOBBYISTS out there, who are also looking for a board game like this, Nirvana is completely achievable - magnet socketing on such a small number of miniatures is a very simple task these days and any of the Warmachine crowd will do this no worries at all. A pistol-grip Dremel and some bulk neodymium will elevate this game to something truly unbelievable... boardgame miniatures that upgrade loot in realtime like an MMO...

This is an amazing project and I totally tip my hat to the incredibly structured way you've gone about achieving this vision - selling limited minis to get down the production curve was inspired, and now you will reap the rewards.

And spending the time on the world design was worth it. I will never forget 'ink stained eyes'...

....Just please make sure the gameplay is tight... I look forward to that video!


- Omni
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Adam Poots
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@Omni, I have to admit the sheer influx of messages across several forums and the kickstarter itself is very hard to keep up with!

I want to thank you for identifying the vision and I hope to impress you with the gameplay video.
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John Cosgrove
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Maintain the rage mate! I'm telling all my mates :-)
 
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Chris
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kingdomdeath wrote:
@Omni, I have to admit the sheer influx of messages across several forums and the kickstarter itself is very hard to keep up with!

I want to thank you for identifying the vision and I hope to impress you with the gameplay video.


Thanks for making the effort to come the the largest gaming site in the world and speak with us. I think it will do wonders for your campaign. I watch kicktraq and have watched the projection go from 2.8 million to 2.4 as more people have begun to question if there is really a game there or some pretty awesome minis.

I am a supporter and at first I was leery of this as the "game" seems to be more conceptual and less refined as I would have hoped but more and more the stretch goals that ADD to the survivor level (not the expansions to a game we have no information about) has kept me interested. I am looking forward to your videos and I also think you will get more support and not lose as much support near the end of you release some actual written rules (or at least partial rules / mechanics). I have high hopes that the game will be good also but as long as you keep throwing free minis in the survivor level there will come a point where I am just backing awesome minis and don't care.
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Greg R.
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kingdomdeath wrote:
I decided to go with a ball socket system which can still be modified with pinning / magnetizing techniques.



This is actually reassuring.

Omnisiah wrote:
Guys, I'm totally with the creator on this with regards to giving options to the user


This is why I backed in the first place. I love the customizability of the figures. My concern is this...

A) We start playing the game with our "naked" figures and acquire some upgrades. Awesome. We stop playing to build these new figures. Done. Play some more and acquire some more upgrades. Super cool! We stop and build these new figures. Rinse and repeat.

Or...

B) I search thru the game to see what coming up and pre build all of my figures with every possible armor/weapon upgrade combo.

Option A delays game play greatly (for me) since I'll be playing with my teenagers and building and painting all the figures myself.

Option B spoils the surprise of the story of the KD universe.

I'm not disputing that this is a wonderful production and (speaking for myself) not once have I knocked Adam's choices or his creation. Maybe its just not what I expected or was hoping for. I'm still a backer and for now I will continue to be a backer.
 
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Chris
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I think that pre-building / pre-painting and using magnets will be the way to go. This way everything can be painted and lets say stored in plastic boxes and as you add items you just pop them on. Now if your a mini gamer or modeler then this shouldn't be that tough to do. But for boardgamers who don't have hundreds and hundreds of minis lying around this may be a bit more advanced then they are looking for.

There are a bunch of tutorials for how to magnetize minis on youtube and just mini painting sites in general. With the price of most GW products most of us have learned how to stretch our gaming dollars by magnetizing the options on a mini. One of the first things I do when I buy a GW kit is that I look into how I can make every option that they offer in the box with only 1 kit.
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Greg R.
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lordunborn wrote:
I think that pre-building / pre-painting and using magnets will be the way to go. This way everything can be painted and lets say stored in plastic boxes and as you add items you just pop them on. Now if your a mini gamer or modeler then this shouldn't be that tough to do. But for boardgamers who don't have hundreds and hundreds of minis lying around this may be a bit more advanced then they are looking for.

There are a bunch of tutorials for how to magnetize minis on youtube and just mini painting sites in general. With the price of most GW products most of us have learned how to stretch our gaming dollars by magnetizing the options on a mini. One of the first things I do when I buy a GW kit is that I look into how I can make every option that they offer in the box with only 1 kit.


Thanks. I'll looking into magnetizing.
 
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Keegan Fink
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I would strongly advise against the use of a Dremel in favor of a pin-vise (as the former does not offer enough control for such a delicate object).
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