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Subject: B-17:QOTS - The Role-Playing Game rss

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Alan Barrett
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I don't know about other players, but I keep picturing a glossy 200-page manual emerging from this game: I can provide the English village setting, right down to the warm beer in the pub and the eccentric 'old money' (which was still in use for the first 11 years of my life). Someone else will need to do the nearby airbase. Careless talk costs lives, so be careful what you say to Rosie the barmaid. And there's no use looking in the shops. There's nothing in 'em! Don't you know there's a war on? Keep Calm and Carry On!
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    The guy from Boeing at the training center told me to keep three hacksaw blades with me at all times "just in case" but they aren't much good at cutting wood for the stove. With any luck the weather will hold until I make my 25.

             S.


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StinkyHarry wrote:
I don't know about other players, but I keep picturing a glossy 200-page manual emerging from this game: I can provide the English village setting, right down to the warm beer in the pub and the eccentric 'old money' (which was still in use for the first 11 years of my life). Someone else will need to do the nearby airbase. Careless talk costs lives, so be careful what you say to Rosie the barmaid. And there's no use looking in the shops. There's nothing in 'em! Don't you know there's a war on? Keep Calm and Carry On!


Yeah, I can imagine the chagrin on the faces of the players as they crumple up yet another charactor sheet after another scorching mission. "Well that one lasted two this time around."

-Ski
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    I could see a rewrite of B-17 with a Flash Point: Fire Rescue kind of thing going on. Not a roleplay, but a co-op that utilizes the same kind of action that the original B-17 did.

    I could see an rpg too. That would be a very new concept for the genre.

             S.


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Alan Barrett
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Sagrilarus wrote:

    I could see a rewrite of B-17 with a Flash Point: Fire Rescue kind of thing going on. Not a roleplay, but a co-op that utilizes the same kind of action that the original B-17 did.

    I could see a co-op too. That would be a very new concept for the genre.

             S.




Do explain a little more. I have, in fact, written a short story in which a group of 50-something guys decide they missed out on something.....and play a much more deadly game. Not published....yet.
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Alan Barrett
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I can't imagine how it would be anything but co-op - I've just looked up the game you referenced. However, officers DO have to send men on dangerous missions.....
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ian morris
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Sagrilarus wrote:
    I could see a rewrite of B-17 with a Flash Point: Fire Rescue kind of thing going on. Not a roleplay, but a co-op that utilizes the same kind of action that the original B-17 did.

    I could see an rpg too. That would be a very new concept for the genre.

             S.





Come and visit us on the Play-by-Forum pages : the 281st BG is up to its 116th mission and still going strong ! Which is more than can be said for most of its crews...

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Alan Barrett
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[q="Sagrilarus"]
    The guy from Boeing at the training center told me to keep three hacksaw blades with me at all times "just in case" but they aren't much good at cutting wood for the stove. With any luck the weather will hold until I make my 25.

             S.


In England? Even less likely than you making your 25! Good luck - with both!
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    Combat Crew: The Story of 25 Combat Missions Over Europe From the Daily Journal of a B-17 Gunner by Comer is a wonderful book about a flight engineer that flew 25 missions from England and details some of the more workaday aspects of his job. One of the things he mentioned was that the Boeing guys at his training facility in Montana told him to keep hacksaw blades in his jacket, because you just didn't know what you might need on a combat flight. I won't give away the details (well worth your time to locate a copy and read it) but it turned out to be very good advice on a very bad day.

    I've read other material from combat but this one was more interesting from a mechanical perspective because he went into the details of the mechanical capabilities and limitations of the "ships" they were flying. Most interesting was the level of on-site modifications the crews were making in order to improve the performance in such a challenging environment.

             S.

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Sagrilarus wrote:

    Combat Crew: The Story of 25 Combat Missions Over Europe From the Daily Journal of a B-17 Gunner by Comer is a wonderful book about a flight engineer that flew 25 missions from England and details some of the more workaday aspects of his job. One of the things he mentioned was that the Boeing guys at his training facility in Montana told him to keep hacksaw blades in his jacket, because you just didn't know what you might need on a combat flight. I won't give away the details (well worth your time to locate a copy and read it) but it turned out to be very good advice on a very bad day.



I need to reread that book. I have completely forgot about that story....a classic book for sure!

-Ski
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Alan Barrett
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[q="Sagrilarus"]
    Combat Crew: The Story of 25 Combat Missions Over Europe From the Daily Journal of a B-17 Gunner by Comer is a wonderful book about a flight engineer that flew 25 missions from England and details some of the more workaday aspects of his job. One of the things he mentioned was that the Boeing guys at his training facility in Montana told him to keep hacksaw blades in his jacket, because you just didn't know what you might need on a combat flight. I won't give away the details (well worth your time to locate a copy and read it) but it turned out to be very good advice on a very bad day.

    I've read other material from combat but this one was more interesting from a mechanical perspective because he went into the details of the mechanical capabilities and limitations of the "ships" they were flying. Most interesting was the level of on-site modifications the crews were making in order to improve the performance in such a challenging environment.

             S.

I've just ordered myself a copy of this. Thanks for the recommendation.
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Charles Snakes et Lattes
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The Canadian Wargame Journal published a thought experiment along these lines, envisioning B-17 as a multi-player game with role playing elements under the title of "Dramatic B-17 Queen of the Skies". It appeared in Volume 2, no. 5 (June/July 1988). I have the citation, but the journal issue is not at hand (its in a storage locker). The idea was that each player would play either an individual crew member, the German air force, or the various higher-level commanders, and perform only those roles (and rolls) within the game.

It was never play-tested.

Update: I went to the storage locker and dug out my copy of Canadian Wargames Journal (its proper title), Vol. 2. no. 5 (issue 11) and the article was there as I remember. It had rules for 3-20 players. With 20 players you had 10 crew members, the Allied Fighter Command, a German FLAK commander, three German fighter players (one each for low, level, and high attacks), one neutral player to roll wing damage, a game master/record keeper, an in-flight reporter, a newsreel camera-man and the 8th AF Commander.

The article is copyright Canadian Wargamers Group. I have e-mailed my last contact point there for permission to repost to BGG.
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Jim P
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Sagrilarus wrote:

    Combat Crew: The Story of 25 Combat Missions Over Europe From the Daily Journal of a B-17 Gunner by Comer is a wonderful book about a flight engineer that flew 25 missions from England and details some of the more workaday aspects of his job. One of the things he mentioned was that the Boeing guys at his training facility in Montana told him to keep hacksaw blades in his jacket, because you just didn't know what you might need on a combat flight. I won't give away the details (well worth your time to locate a copy and read it) but it turned out to be very good advice on a very bad day.

    I've read other material from combat but this one was more interesting from a mechanical perspective because he went into the details of the mechanical capabilities and limitations of the "ships" they were flying. Most interesting was the level of on-site modifications the crews were making in order to improve the performance in such a challenging environment.

             S.


Sagrilarus,
You are correvt, this is a great book. It was my first Kindle book and was about $4-$5 USD's. The best value in a book ever. I remember the hack saw blade comment too.

Well worth picking this one up.
Jim
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Interesting stuff. i don't suppose the article is available anywhere else? I don't know the Journal in question or whether it is still in existence.....Tantalising.
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gamer72 wrote:
Sagrilarus wrote:
    I could see a rewrite of B-17 with a Flash Point: Fire Rescue kind of thing going on. Not a roleplay, but a co-op that utilizes the same kind of action that the original B-17 did.

    I could see an rpg too. That would be a very new concept for the genre.

             S.





Come and visit us on the Play-by-Forum pages : the 281st BG is up to its 116th mission and still going strong ! Which is more than can be said for most of its crews...



Ian,

Me thinks Leadbetter and KIA are the only two left, from the original group, that started in the first 25 missions. It has been a rough year for the 281st BG (V)...

Jim P shake
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Alan Barrett
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Anybody else think B-17:QOTS is just a little bit TOO deadly?
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StinkyHarry wrote:
Anybody else think B-17:QOTS is just a little bit TOO deadly?


I would agree. I've played over 2,000 times since 1990 and I've yet to get a crewman to 25 missions. Had a ballgunner on his 24th before the bombs went off, and a plane knocked down on it's 17th flight.

What seems to be the most frustrating one is the fuel tank fire. Until Jasta6 devised a way to at least TRY and offer a way out by diving the plane, there's nothing you could do. It was a bailout under controlled or uncontrolled circumstances. I HATE rolling a 10 on wing hits....
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aerogoose wrote:
StinkyHarry wrote:
Anybody else think B-17:QOTS is just a little bit TOO deadly?


I would agree. I've played over 2,000 times since 1990 and I've yet to get a crewman to 25 missions. Had a ballgunner on his 24th before the bombs went off, and a plane knocked down on it's 17th flight.

What seems to be the most frustrating one is the fuel tank fire. Until Jasta6 devised a way to at least TRY and offer a way out by diving the plane, there's nothing you could do. It was a bailout under controlled or uncontrolled circumstances. I HATE rolling a 10 on wing hits....


Actually the fuel tank rule comes from the 400th BG online game, now finished, and I believe it was Mr. Peckham that worked it up. I just tweaked it a bit for our campaign. Yes this is a most handy rule as I too detest rolling 10 on the wing chart. I think most of my losses have come from some sort of wing fire.

Jim P cool
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jasta6 wrote:
The best value in a book ever.


    I got Shattered Sword: The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway on Kindle for a dollar. That was likely the best value I've gotten, but Combat Crew at $2.99 was a heck of a deal too.

             S.


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aerogoose wrote:
StinkyHarry wrote:
Anybody else think B-17:QOTS is just a little bit TOO deadly?


I would agree. I've played over 2,000 times since 1990 and I've yet to get a crewman to 25 missions. Had a ballgunner on his 24th before the bombs went off, and a plane knocked down on it's 17th flight.

What seems to be the most frustrating one is the fuel tank fire. Until Jasta6 devised a way to at least TRY and offer a way out by diving the plane, there's nothing you could do. It was a bailout under controlled or uncontrolled circumstances. I HATE rolling a 10 on wing hits....


I've started a new GENERAL post on this issue.
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Alan Barrett
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Sagrilarus wrote:
jasta6 wrote:
The best value in a book ever.


    I got Shattered Sword: The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway on Kindle for a dollar. That was likely the best value I've gotten, but Combat Crew at $2.99 was a heck of a deal too.

             S.




I got the War Lover. Says it's the best book on the air war.....Is this just hype? Didn't cost much, anyway.
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Sagrilarus wrote:

    Combat Crew: The Story of 25 Combat Missions Over Europe From the Daily Journal of a B-17 Gunner by Comer is a wonderful book about a flight engineer that flew 25 missions from England and details some of the more workaday aspects of his job. One of the things he mentioned was that the Boeing guys at his training facility in Montana told him to keep hacksaw blades in his jacket, because you just didn't know what you might need on a combat flight. I won't give away the details (well worth your time to locate a copy and read it) but it turned out to be very good advice on a very bad day.

    I've read other material from combat but this one was more interesting from a mechanical perspective because he went into the details of the mechanical capabilities and limitations of the "ships" they were flying. Most interesting was the level of on-site modifications the crews were making in order to improve the performance in such a challenging environment.

             S.



I'll have to take a look at it. My dad was flight engineer on a B-24. I still have all his old training books with the schematics.
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StinkyHarry wrote:
Interesting stuff. i don't suppose the article is available anywhere else? I don't know the Journal in question or whether it is still in existence.....Tantalising.


The fine folks at Canadian Wargamers Group have given me permission to post the "Dramatic B-17" article to BGG. I scanned it and submitted it to the administrators today. It is now awaiting approval.
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Alan Barrett
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Wow! I mean - Wow! Can't wait!
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StinkyHarry wrote:
Wow! I mean - Wow! Can't wait!


For anyone still following this thread, the article from Canadian Wargamers Journal is now available for view on BGG.
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