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Kingdom Death: Monster» Forums » General

Subject: Rules? rss

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Manuel Ingeland
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Will we get to see any? Or are they only in the art book?
 
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Chris
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The designer has stated that he will NOT be releasing rules before the kickstarter ends. You are not bkickstarting a game but a cool set of minis. I am pretty sure the game is more conceptual then fleshed out.
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Manuel Ingeland
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Doesn't "kick" me yet. Nude chicks can't be all.
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John Paul Messerly
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The designer has promised a gameplay video later this week.
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Dérek Boily
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Still, I feel this game has some serious potential. It would be great if Mr. Poots spent some time here on BGG, there is a whole bunch of ressources and an amazing community ready to help.
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Adam Poots
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!! I am a BGG noob! I have been a fan of BGG and have lurked / learned about many of my favorite games ( Dominion, 7 Wonders to name a few... )

But I am not used to how exactly the community works and I have to admit the rules page is MASSIVE.

For now I am happy to answer any questions that bubble up and I am going to slowly work on filling out information on the pages here.
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Matthew Rooks
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I'm looking forward to seeing how the gameplay fleshes out for this game. Once you post your gameplay video, it would be a good idea to post a short summary of the game on its page here on BGG.
 
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Chad Caughmann
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The Kickstarter looks great. I'm tempted to back it - but I'm not going to unless I see some rules/gameplay first. I've already got tons of unpainted minis...I don't really need more, so I can't buy it primarily for the minis. I'm more interested in a good campaign rpg boardgame. If you can convince me yours will be it, I'll gladly throw down the money. However, it'll take more than just words...I need some substance.

Are you only ever fighting 1 monster at a time? How much of the game is spent fighting monster/s, and how much is spent doing other stuff? What is doing the other stuff consist of in your game...and how can I expect that to play out. How long is a play session expected to last, and what are we going to be doing during that play session?
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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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thetang22 wrote:
The Kickstarter looks great. I'm tempted to back it - but I'm not going to unless I see some rules/gameplay first.


I agree with TheTang22 (*waves* hey man, haven’t see you since the Super Dungeon Explore forums!).  I think the artwork and miniatures look AMAZING and love the idea of the interchangeable parts system, but like TheTang22, right now im looking more for a good game that happens to have awesome pieces vs. awesome pieces with a so so game and am looking forward to seeing more about the actual game play before getting it / kickstarting.
 
Unfortunately with the schedules and lives of the ppl I play with now, it would be hard to get any games going that take too much time to learn and keep statistical data (e.g. a D & D –esque full on campaign systems), so really hoping this game has a tight, well structured set of rules focused on fighting monsters and gearing up yourself and your settlement that doesn’t get too bogged down in keeping track of all the numbers going on.  The way this game looks from the vid, there looks to be a great potential for keeping that “level up, build my character” feel without having to invest in books and books of rules and having to make my friends keep detailed character sheet logs.
 
 
Here are some random questions / game points I am brainstorming right now to kind of throw out there to get things rolling:
 
 
-How long is a game?  Since the game is monster fight based can you play just one monster for a quick game or is it a whole campaign?  Can you start in the middle of a campaign and pick up a different session?
 
-How are stats calculated / used? I saw a character sheet in one of the video shots and was wondering the mechanics.  Again, I personally wouldn’t mind sheets, but was wondering the necessity (again with the way the mechanics work). The 9 slots for gear is great… do you have to keep statistics too? Tokens or markers for a set character card maybe?  Just ideas.
 
-Settlement upgrades.  Again, an awesome idea to unlock new weapons and gear, but hopefully isn’t so rules and stats logged that it becomes a chore to upkeep and maintain or figure out.  Looking forward to seeing how this works.
 
-The modular pieces for actual game play… for someone who wanted to paint them, would it be that we paint each piece separately and build / take apart the models each game then? Was a little unclear about the different models involved in actual gameplay with all the extra models, ats and other figures on your main site (are they all usable? Collectors items, etc).

-Kickstarter – The addition and subtraction of bonus items for different levels are kind of all over the place (though I did see in an update you were working on that).  Looking forward to a more put together list to help with donation levels and how much to increase the cost to match the pieces I would want =).
 
Actually after writing this I think if this turned out closer to a traditional “book campaign / character sheet” game I could actually get it to work in my case (as it would just mean hitting up a different set of gamers to play it) but yeh whichever way it goes would still want to see how well it plays.  I know that its been posted around that you are trying to not post actual rules up anywhere, but even the basic overview of things like how a weapon effects a stat or how you keep track of a monsters life and stuff like that would be helpful.
 
Just my two cents tho =).
-Emil
 
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Adam Poots
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@Emil Good Questions!,

- A session is around 20 - 90 minutes depending on what happens and much time it takes your group with decision making.

- Not crazy about tokens or token tracks. They are the kinda thing where once you have loads of em, you forget to move them or worse yet lose the token and up using scrap paper or a dice anyway. To keep things simple, the game does not have any derived stats and everything is basically gear based.

- The "settlement" consists of several 4"x8" heavy cards ( might make then tiles ) , each representing a location. You begin with just 3. The card itself has all the rules of what you can do at the location, what stuff you can craft or what special rules happen when a survivor interacts with it. Generally speaking, you can craft freely from any location, but only participate in a single endeavor ( a locations special property ) once a settlement phase. This really helps streamline things.

- Exactly how you use the armor kits is up to you as a hobbyist. I looked into plastic snap options and determined it would end up being more restrictive and also greatly limit the design of each part. I provide the parts, you decide how best to utilize them. All of the models in the game box are needed to play, any doubling up or extra sets are purely bonuses figures.

- Yeah working on the this, but its priority falls short of the gameplay video, but I will get both of em sorted!

- Think of it as an rpg light / hybrid miniatures game. You can easily keep your currently settlement in a box to be unpacked when its time to play and I am working on something neat that might help you keep track of your active survivor with greater ease.
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Keegan Fink
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Fantastic info! Thanks Adam laugh
 
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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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Hey Adam! Thanks for the great info!
 
Sad to hear that the miniature armor pieces aren’t out of the box readily interchangeable (which I know for some of the people who are strictly gamers was a bigger selling point) but after reading some of the other threads / discussion I totally understand the production constraints and quality issues, and like the way you put it:  All the pieces are supplied to play the game in its entirety, and its up to the owner how to utilize them and represent them in the game (assemble once, keep adjustable, etc). Me personally I think I am going to look into the whole “magnetic / swappable” route that ppl have mentioned as I love the idea of having patched together gear and different character combos (and will paint the pieces accordingly), but tbh id be just as fine with the full armor sets being assembled once at the beginning and then getting swapped in and out when I collected the sets in the game (just so happens I was looking for a project to do, so magnets it is!).
 
Thanks for clarifying the stats process a bit.  I think as long as the system isn’t too elaborate or complex me personally I would be totally fine with just using the gear cards to figure out a characters abilities / power (in fact I prefer that way).  I was just concerned because of that stat sheet in the video and was wary of it becoming a super in depth D & D character build game.
 
Nice info too about the settlement setup! I kept going back to the vids and trying to figure out the layout (the black standing back cards right?).  The way you describe them sound like a good middle ground. Not too complicated but lots of different options…I like the idea of the settlement expansion being more “you gain this section, you can do x,y,z now” and I was more concerned bout getting into issues like “This item requires a blacksmith of level 1 and a metalsmith of level 5… but you can only get a metalsmith of level 5 if you open up a library first and that library has to have so and so materials attached and …” kinds of settlement requirement issues a grocery list long!  I think I read in another post you were opposed to having the actual locations be physically placed and that effecting accessibility and I agree that would just make things more complicated as well.
 
Cant wait for you to come out with that “menu” of donation options.  Its hard to figure out which level to donate and then how much to increment! Im not so much a collector so wanted to focus on the pieces that will aid the gameplay mainly and I think a list of all the options available would be great in figuring out a game plan.  Of course, I agree the game vid takes top priority so I can wait =). Heh the video is kind of the "make or break" on how much I want this as a game... but Im slowly getting won over by how much I want this as a miniature set anyway =P.
 
Looking forward to your updates, thanks!
 
-Emil
 
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Chad Caughmann
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Hi Emil, nice to see you here. I still spend a decent amount of time with SDE, but I'm getting semi-exhausted with waiting for official campaign rules.

One of the things about KD that's got me wondering (other than general gameplay that I've been asking about), is the gameboard. It is listed as 24"x36". That's a pretty decent sized board, yet the promo pics only show an area of 6"x6" with minis on them. How much of the gameboard will be designated for miniature play? If miniature-play doesn't take up the entire board, what other sorts of things is the gameboard used for?
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J V
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Hey, don't worry about the the lack of rules, that's not what important about games.

It's about making sure that in this post-apocalyptic resource starved wasteland, the women can find pumps that match their mudflap nipple coverings.
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crackbone wrote:
Hey, don't worry about the the lack of rules, that's not what important about games.

It's about making sure that in this post-apocalyptic resource starved wasteland, the women can find pumps that match their mudflap nipple coverings.


Nice try. This looks great, but after being burned a few times on cool concepts (the Serpent's Tongue KickStarter comes to mind), I can't back something on faith alone. There are photos of a game in progress in the KS video, and a tutorial is on the way. The campaign has blown past it's goal, so they don't need my money, and there's no reason to try and get more backers, but not releasing rules tells me there's no game there, and I have enough minis.

No matter how awesome these look, I can't justify $150+ pledge for a handful of minis. The stretch rewards are not particularly impressive, either. Seeing the rules would go along way towards getting more backers, and removing my own reservations. For the pledge I would give here, I'm getting over 140 minis from the Reaper KS campaign, but at least I knew I was on board for just minis there. I'd really like to know there's an actual game here.

My $.02.

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Team Ski
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ShotgunLove wrote:
crackbone wrote:
Hey, don't worry about the the lack of rules, that's not what important about games.

It's about making sure that in this post-apocalyptic resource starved wasteland, the women can find pumps that match their mudflap nipple coverings.


Nice try. This looks great, but after being burned a few times on cool concepts (the Serpent's Tongue KickStarter comes to mind), I can't back something on faith alone.



OT, but how were you burned by Serpent's Tongue? The game system is going to be extremely tight.

-SKi
 
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Teamski wrote:
ShotgunLove wrote:
crackbone wrote:
Hey, don't worry about the the lack of rules, that's not what important about games.

It's about making sure that in this post-apocalyptic resource starved wasteland, the women can find pumps that match their mudflap nipple coverings.


Nice try. This looks great, but after being burned a few times on cool concepts (the Serpent's Tongue KickStarter comes to mind), I can't back something on faith alone.



OT, but how were you burned by Serpent's Tongue? The game system is going to be extremely tight.

-SKi


It's a touchy subject for some of us, so I don't want to go OT with a lot of back and forth. I'll just what was advertised is a far cry from what it became, but it LOOKED like they had the game and rules squared away. Despite the awesome bits, I was hoping for a game. What I'm getting is arguably more lifestyle. Whether the changes are better or not is a debate for that forum.

By comparison, this one LOOKS like it has a game there, but without rules, I'm on the fence. I suspect most people backing this are fans of the obnoxiously awesome minis. Having as many minis as I do, that's just not a selling point, but I'm speaking for myself. The game is just more important to me in this instance.
 
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For all those that have questions on the rules, Adam has posted a video concerning the rules of combat. He has 2 more videos planned for the other 2 phases of the game.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/poots/kingdom-death-mons...
 
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Adam Kazimierczak
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mermuse wrote:
The designer has promised a gameplay video later this week.


Read: Video of grown men playing with cool half naked minis with no rules.
 
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Adam Poots
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@Adam Kazimierczak,

I am sorry your comment has lost me a little.(maybe i am just tired!) Could you restate it so I can address your particular concern or answer your question?

Thanks!
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Team Ski
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kingdomdeath wrote:
@Adam Kazimierczak,

I am sorry your comment has lost me a little.(maybe i am just tired!) Could you restate it so I can address your particular concern or answer your question?

Thanks!


I'm sure it was a rhetorical statement.

-Ski
 
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Adam Kazimierczak
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The OP asked about rules. He was quite perfunctorily told there would be no rules before the Kickstarter campaign is over and accounts are charged.

In another thread on Kingdom Death you are quoted as saying the game is 35% through its development process. This leads to the theory that perhaps there are no finalized, playtested rules to be had. That would make the video more a showcase of people playing with the minis and not actually a representation of the final game (which does not exist yet).

Now if there were rules and maybe even an objective review then this concern would not exist. Games Workshop doesn't offer rules for its games, but it also doesn't expect people to pay money for a product that is only 35% developed.
 
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Adam Poots
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@Kaziam,

The poster that respond to OP was reporting what he heard elsewhere. It is true I will not publicly post a copy of the PDF rulebook prior to release. But I never said anything about videos / graphics that would help explain the game. In the kickstarter pitch video I estimated everything being at around the 80% mark, tho this has gone down a bit due to the number of expansions & extra work the stretch goals have added.

The 35% comes from the about section of the Kingdom Death website, which is vastly outdated at this point. The game has split into two projects, while at the time of making that page it was only one. At this point "Monster" is close to completion, however the other game is not.

Here is the link for reference in case anyone is curious :
http://kingdomdeath.com/about.html

( and yes I really need to update it! )

I hope that clears the miscommunication up for you!
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Adam Kazimierczak
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kingdomdeath wrote:
@Kaziam,

The poster that respond to OP was reporting what he heard elsewhere. It is true I will not publicly post a copy of the PDF rulebook prior to release. But I never said anything about videos / graphics that would help explain the game. In the kickstarter pitch video I estimated everything being at around the 80% mark, tho this has gone down a bit due to the number of expansions & extra work the stretch goals have added.

The 35% comes from the about section of the Kingdom Death website, which is vastly outdated at this point. The game has split into two projects, while at the time of making that page it was only one. At this point "Monster" is close to completion, however the other game is not.

Here is the link for reference in case anyone is curious :
http://kingdomdeath.com/about.html

( and yes I really need to update it! )

I hope that clears the miscommunication up for you!


Thanks, that is helpful. I guess it goes to show that quotes taken out of context are rarely accurate.
 
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K.Y. Wong
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kaziam wrote:
Now if there were rules and maybe even an objective review then this concern would not exist. Games Workshop doesn't offer rules for its games, but it also doesn't expect people to pay money for a product that is only 35% developed.

As have often been explained, kickstarter is not an online shop for us to buy off-the-shelf products. It's a way to show support for an idea that you share the creator's belief in. Kickstarter's requirement for a "Project Risks" section is exactly aimed at this common misconception.

I am interested in Kingdom Death but will not pledge until the risk that this may not have a good game behind it reaches a point that I am comfortable to take up. But as with all kickstarter projects, I certainly do not expect a 100% certainty.
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