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Subject: Sea Bastion: definition of loop rss

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J C Lawrence
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In determining a road loop for scoring of the Sea Bastion, is the loop definition:

-- No hex edge may be crossed more than once?

or:

-- No hex may occur in the loop more than once?

In specific detail, may tiles like the Alehouse with 4 road connections serve as the mid-point in a figure-8 type road loop?
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Bruce Murphy
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clearclaw wrote:
In determining a road loop for scoring of the Sea Bastion, is the loop definition:

-- No hex edge may be crossed more than once?

or:

-- No hex may occur in the loop more than once?

In specific detail, may tiles like the Alehouse with 4 road connections serve as the mid-point in a figure-8 type road loop?


The designer clarified this specifically permitting a figure 8 (technically a pinched circle, so it appears the rules is better stated as hex-edge. Or perhaps by saying clearings aren't roads.

Scoring of Sea Bastion

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J C Lawrence
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Danke. Yes, the stated ruling summates to not crossing a hex-edge more than once.
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Bruce Murphy
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I offer the alternative only since I want to avoid introducing a new term to the rules. This actually matches the standard Eulerian walk formation where nodes-aren't-roads (or bridges)

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Dave Eisen
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thepackrat wrote:
I offer the alternative only since I want to avoid introducing a new term to the rules. This actually matches the standard Eulerian walk formation where nodes-aren't-roads (or bridges)

B>


New term or not, "each hex side only once" is clear, well-defined, and easy to evaluate in any map. Anything else leads to difficulties in part because it is not completely clear on each tile what topology of roads is hidden under the boxes and symbols which define the activation abilities and upgrade costs of the tiles.

I'm going to stick with "each hex side only once" both in my play and in my teaching.
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Bruce Murphy
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Well, just point out that Keyflower uses Lawson villages.

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J C Lawrence
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Yeah, that was surprising.
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thepackrat wrote:
clearclaw wrote:
In determining a road loop for scoring of the Sea Bastion, is the loop definition:

-- No hex edge may be crossed more than once?

or:

-- No hex may occur in the loop more than once?

In specific detail, may tiles like the Alehouse with 4 road connections serve as the mid-point in a figure-8 type road loop?


The designer clarified this specifically permitting a figure 8 (technically a pinched circle, so it appears the rules is better stated as hex-edge. Or perhaps by saying clearings aren't roads.

Scoring of Sea Bastion

B>


Bruce,

so a loop can go through a tile more then once but not with the same route and if this is the case then you score the tile only once (even if 2 routes are used), right ?
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Bruce Murphy
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powerwis wrote:

so a loop can go through a tile more then once but not with the same route and if this is the case then you score the tile only once (even if 2 routes are used), right ?


Yes to the not-the-same-road-segment (in or out) and yes, the rules are quite clear that it is only scoring for the number of connected tiles, not how many times you pass through them.
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thepackrat wrote:
powerwis wrote:

so a loop can go through a tile more then once but not with the same route and if this is the case then you score the tile only once (even if 2 routes are used), right ?


Yes to the not-the-same-road-segment (in or out) and yes, the rules are quite clear that it is only scoring for the number of connected tiles, not how many times you pass through them.


ok for the connected tiles but the question is more about the roads (crossroads) on a same tile...
still not completely clear i must say because doing an 8 with the loop means going through a road where you already passed
 
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Bruce Murphy
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powerwis wrote:
thepackrat wrote:
powerwis wrote:

so a loop can go through a tile more then once but not with the same route and if this is the case then you score the tile only once (even if 2 routes are used), right ?


Yes to the not-the-same-road-segment (in or out) and yes, the rules are quite clear that it is only scoring for the number of connected tiles, not how many times you pass through them.


ok for the connected tiles but the question is more about the roads (crossroads) on a same tile...
still not completely clear i must say because doing an 8 with the loop means going through a road where you already passed :what:


And here we come to the original premise of this thread. There are two ways to think about it.

1. Only consider the road segments leading out from the central clearing, not the clearing itself.
2. Or consider the rule to mean "you cannot pass through a hex-edge twice", which had been adopted from another type of game.

I guess you're considering the figure 8 to somehow have the path crossing in the clearing. How about following the designer's suggestion and instead of drawing a crossing figure-8, consider a circle which has been pinched together in the middle so that it almost meets, but doesn't cross.

Covers the same tiles, no crossing.

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thepackrat wrote:
powerwis wrote:
thepackrat wrote:
powerwis wrote:

so a loop can go through a tile more then once but not with the same route and if this is the case then you score the tile only once (even if 2 routes are used), right ?


Yes to the not-the-same-road-segment (in or out) and yes, the rules are quite clear that it is only scoring for the number of connected tiles, not how many times you pass through them.


ok for the connected tiles but the question is more about the roads (crossroads) on a same tile...
still not completely clear i must say because doing an 8 with the loop means going through a road where you already passed


And here we come to the original premise of this thread. There are two ways to think about it.

1. Only consider the road segments leading out from the central clearing, not the clearing itself.
2. Or consider the rule to mean "you cannot pass through a hex-edge twice", which had been adopted from another type of game.

I guess you're considering the figure 8 to somehow have the path crossing in the clearing. How about following the designer's suggestion and instead of drawing a crossing figure-8, consider a circle which has been pinched together in the middle so that it almost meets, but doesn't cross.

Covers the same tiles, no crossing.

B>


Many thanks Bruce for your help !
not easy to understand that when reading the rules...

is it really how the authors intended to play it ? (i already read the other post but still need confirmation for the french translation of the rules)
 
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Bruce Murphy
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Well, he said so, and the scoring isn't out of line, so yes.

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