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Cosmic Encounter» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rewards Deck and Compensation rss

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Allen Michaels
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Quick question:

I was a defensive ally, and won. I select a ship, 1 Cosmic card, and 2 Rewards cards (from Cosmic Incursion).

Next turn, I attacked and faced a negotiate. I now have to grant compensation...4 random cards.

So...here is the question:

1) Is compensation of cards only Cosmic Cards, or are Rewards cards included?

2) If included, it is truly random? That is, I shuffle under the table or some other annoying mechanic, then deal off 4 cards what ever they may be?

3) Or, is it a traditional 'hold them in front of your face'...and the compensation collector can decide if they want to take the reward cards from you or not...since they can see the different backs.

I don't think it's #2, but it might be #1, since the Rewards deck seems to have different and separate treatment in many cases. But I think it's #3, since it's easiest.


Which brings up on other point. Aside from not 'Cosmic Quaking', does the reward deck differ in any other way? I remember reading that any time something mentions 'a card'...that's a cosmic card. But anything else? I assume it's valid, for example, as part of a deal to say "I'll give you a random Cosmic card for one of your random Rewards cards."

Thanks...
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Matthew Bearden
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I believe it is #3 , there are some reward cards that you do not want to take so it creates a risk reward for the receiving player (there are mostly good reward cards but there are also some that will mess you up if you get them this way)
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David Dawson
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#3 is the right way to do it. If they go for your reward cards, they get the possibility of a better artifact or higher attack card, but might also encounter a Rift or one of the negative cards. It's a nice risk-assessment decision point for the compensee.

I'm not sure of any situations or card/power effects that only mean the Cosmic deck when referring to "cards". As far as I know, Reward cards are just as much fair game. Although you only draw from the reward deck when something tells you take a defensive reward. Otherwise, effects that tell you to "draw cards" are from the Cosmic deck.
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Jordan S.
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dawson_osu wrote:
#3 is the right way to do it. If they go for your reward cards, they get the possibility of a better artifact or higher attack card, but might also encounter a Rift or one of the negative cards. It's a nice risk-assessment decision point for the compensee.

Correct. #3 is how it should be done based on my understanding. That is the reason the Rift cards exist. The compensee (word?) will be tempted to snatch your Reward cards but can't get too greedy lest he hurt himself in doing so.

dawson_osu wrote:
I'm not sure of any situations or card/power effects that only mean the Cosmic deck when referring to "cards". As far as I know, Reward cards are just as much fair game. Although you only draw from the reward deck when something tells you take a defensive reward. Otherwise, effects that tell you to "draw cards" are from the Cosmic deck.

In the Cosmic Incursion rules document, it says the following under "Gameplay" in the Reward Deck Variant section:

Quote:
Reward cards that are played are discarded to a special reward deck discard pile. This discard pile cannot be affected by any effect that affects the discard pile - only the normal discard pile can be affected by such effects.

So, it would seem that Reward cards in-hand or in-play are treated just like Cosmic cards as far as I can tell but once Reward cards hit their separate discard pile, they cannot be the target of effects which otherwise allow players to manipulate the discard pile of the Cosmic deck.
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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All correct. In essence, "card" really does mean card, but "deck" all by itself means cosmic deck and "discard pile" means cosmic deck discard pile.

These general rules make almost everything work smoothly, although you do have to errata Gambler to say "then place your encounter card facedown on the bottom of the appropriate deck instead of discarding it" to avoid inserting reward cards into the cosmic deck. There's also an exception for discard-grabbers to take cards from the reward deck discard pile, which is explained in the following Cosmodex article:

:reward deck: Access: The reward deck is accessed only in the context of collecting rewards. Although not spelled out in the rules, it is clear that game effects which refrence "the deck" must be interpreted as meaning only "the cosmic deck". Thus, things like Remora and Wild Mind do not work when players are drawing cards from the reward deck. Reward deck discard pile: Based on the Cosmic Incursion rulebook and comments from playtesters, the general rule for handling this discard pile appears to be as follows: nothing that targets the regular discard pile or the cards in it gets to target the reward deck discard pile or its cards, with one exception: game effects that target cards that should be discarded, are in the process of being discarded, or have just been discarded do work on cards going to the reward deck discard pile. Things that happen later, as a separate action not specifically responding to the act of discarding, cannot retrieve cards from that pile, but there is a small window of opportunity after the cards are freshly discarded where they may be immediately retrieved. Fido, Filch, Vulch, and Wild Reserve, then, are able to recover cards from the reward deck discard pile since they happen immediately when the card is discarded. However, Wild Chronos, Wild Cyborg, Delta Scanners, Wild Fido, Classic Edition Wild Filch, and Space Junk do not target cards that have just been discarded, so they would not have access to the reward deck discard pile (and Wild Filch can't steal from the reward deck, either). Unanswered question: Can Space Junk get a card from the reward deck discard pile if it is played immediately after that card is discarded? The answer depends on whether the window of opportunity exists for game effects that can activate during or after discarding or for game effects that specifically target discarding. Card backs: Rifts are intended to be a risk/punishment for actively targeting reward-back cards when taking cards from someone else. The player taking the cards is allowed to see which card backs he is selecting; so when something specifies that cards are taken, discarded, etc. "at random," this really means "without seeing the faces of the cards."
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Mi Myma
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Considering that Space Junk is itself a reward card, it seems reasonable to allow it to retrieve a card from the reward discard pile. I think that makes it a bit more interesting, and doesn't harm the game. And of course, even Space Junk doesn't allow you to dig through either discard pile.
 
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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Phil Fleischmann wrote:
Considering that Space Junk is itself a reward card, it seems reasonable to allow it to retrieve a card from the reward discard pile.

I don't see how that coincidence is really relevant. It's a bit like saying that alien A should have some special allowance for interacting with alien B because they're both yellow-alert or they both came in the same set or they both start with the letter S.

A card does what a card does; its text says what it says. How it works doesn't have anything to do with what its back design is.

And actually, as I read Space Junk again right now, the realization that it plays on any player and forces them to take an action suggests that it should not target the RDDP. Part of the cleverness of the design is that you can play it on yourself when there's an attack 23 on top of the pile, or you can play it on me when there's an attack 04 on top of the pile. But if I, as your victim, get to choose which discard pile it affects, then it's a lot harder for you to use it in this mode: you'd have to wait until both discard piles had crap on top, and even then I'll still choose the lesser of the two evils.

I'm disappointed in myself that I missed that before, and now that I see it, it's enough to answer the question for me (especially in light of the fact that letting it target the RDDP would really have been an extension/exception to the "grace period" rule). I'm rescinding the UQ and apologize that I didn't analyze this thoroughly enough before.
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