Martin Hall
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Four of you are heroic members of the Resistance; Three of you are dirty spies!
[OR is that four of you are despicable terrorists plotting against our benevolent and wise government; and three of you are noble and self-sacrificing counter-terrorist operatives - remember the winners write the history!]

The number of players required for each mission is as follows:
M1 - 2
M2 - 3
M3 - 3
M4 - 4 (2 fails necessary for spy point)
M5 - 4

First to 3 points wins (unless resistance gets 3 points but Assassin gets the Commander).

The rules for players:
1) Official proposals should be in bold and contain the appropriate proposal number (per standard PBF etiquette, the fifth proposal will automatically be sent).
2) All votes will be GMed to me. Please send your vote in the subject line!
3) Please subscribe to the thread and check in at least daily (exceptions for weekends).
4) There should be no game related PMs between any players. Players are free to GM me with any concerns. [NB - I consider participants in this PBF discussing it with other participants outside of this thread to be poor form]
5) Do not edit posts, except within the first minute or two to fix typos. I trust you all to not abuse this. Also, if you post a post of just game facts, votes and proposals, and you make an error, you may edit that. If there is any analysis in the same post, there is no editing after the few minutes are up. For clarity - deleting is an extreme form of editing which is also forbidden.
6) No public dice rolls. You have not been provided with dice.

Player list (in seating order):
Jarek (JarekWarsaw)
VC (Vanderscamp)
Eunoia (eunoia)
Club (clublock)
Mike (mfl134)
Andrey (Random_Phobosis)
Tables (I Eat Tables)


Special game rules:
1) One of the resistance players is the Commander. The Commander knows the identity of all the players who start the game as spies (he does not know which of them is the potential turn-coat spy nor who of the other initially resistance players may change sides later).
2) One of the spies is the Assassin; if the Assassin successfully identifies the Commander at the end of the game, the spies win (even if the resistance completes 3 missions).
3) One of the starting spies and one of the starting resistance (not the Commander nor the Assassin) are potential turn-coats. There are 5 loyalty event cards, three being "no change" and 2 being "change sides". One card will be publicly turned over at the start of turns 3, 4 and 5. If the card is "change sides", then each turn-coat shifts (one from spy to resistance and the other from resistance to spy). So there can be 0, 1 or 2 changes in loyalty. Each turn coat wins (or not) based on the side they end on (i.e. for the turn when there is either a 3rd successful mission or a 3rd failed mission).
4) The turn-coats (whether starting as spy or resistance) do not know the other spies or the other turn-coat. The other spies know the turn-coat who starts as a spy, but not the turn-coat who starts as resistance.
5) A turn-coat who is currently resistance must pass a mission; a turn-coat who is currently spy may pass or fail (as for other spies).

Any questions on the games rules?

I hope this PBF finishes better than my last attempt
 
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Martin Hall
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Re: PBF#42 7player - Commander/Assassin with turn-coat spy version NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
Jarek proposes M1.1: Jarek, Mike
Approved
Jarek Yes
VC No
Eunoia Yes
Club No
Mike Yes
Andrey Yes
Tables No

Result: Success Pass, Pass

VC proposes M2.1: Jarek, VC, Mike
REJECTED:
Jarek No
VC Yes
Eunoia No
Club Yes
Mike Yes
Andrey No
Tables No

Eunoia proposes M2.2: Jarek, Eunoia, Mike
Rejected:
Yes 3 (Jarek, Eunoia, Mike)
No 4 (VC, Club, Andrey, Tables)

Club propose M2.3: Jarek, Club, Mike
Rejected:
Yes 2 (Club, Mike)
No 5 (Jarek, VC, Eunoia, Andrey, Tables)

Mike proposes M2.4: Jarek, VC, Mike
Approved:
Yes 4 (Jarek, VC, Club, Mike)
No 3 (Eunoia, Andrey, Tables)

Result: Failure Pass, Pass, Fail

Loyalty card at start of Turn 3: Change sides

Andrey proposes M3.1: Jarek, Eunoia, Andrey
Approved
Yes 4 (Jarek, Eunoia, Mike, Andrey)
No 3 (VC, Club, Tables)

Result: Success Pass, Pass, Pass

Loyalty card at the start of Turn 4: No Change

Tables proposes M4.1: Jarek, Eunoia, Andrey, Tables
Approved
Yes 6 (Jarek, VC, Eunoia, Mike, Andrey, Tables)
No 1 (Club)

Result: Failure Pass, Fail, Fail, Fail
[NB - I think this is the first ever triple fail in PBF history]

Loyalty card at start of Turn 5: Change sides

Jarek proposes M5.1: Jarek, VC, Eunoia, Club
Rejected
Yes: 1(Jarek)
No: 6 (VC, Eunoia, Club, Mike, Andrey, Tables)

VC proposes M5.2 (VC, Eunoia, Andrey, Tables)
Rejected
Yes: 1 (Andrey)
No: 6 (Jarek, VC, Eunoia, Club, Mike, Andrey, Tables)

Eunoia proposes M5.3 (VC, Eunoia, Club, Tables)
Rejected
Yes: 2 (Eunoia, Tables)
No: 5 (Jarek, VC, Club, Mike, Andrey)

Club proposes M5.4 (VC, Eunoia, Club, Mike)
Rejected
Yes 1 (Andrey)
No 6 (Jarek, VC, Eunoia, Club, Mike, Tables)

Mike sends M5.5 (VC, Eunoia, Club, Mike)

Result: Success Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass

Final mission results are 3 Successes and 2 Failures. This is a provisional rebel victory, but the Assassin can still win the game for the spies if he kills the Commander.

Jarek assassinates VC; but Club is Commander, so Rebels Win
 
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Re: PBF#42 7player - Commander/Assassin with turn-coat spy version NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
In.
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
(If anyone's interested, the concept of the turn-coats for the original sci-fi theme was that they were malfunctioning Androids.)
3 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
Don E wrote:
(If anyone's interested, the concept of the turn-coats for the original sci-fi theme was that they were malfunctioning Androids.)


Can the spies be called Brown Coats?
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
Don E wrote:
(If anyone's interested, the concept of the turn-coats for the original sci-fi theme was that they were malfunctioning Androids.)
Thanks - people are welcome to adopt that as their rationale

BTW - I got this (Lancelot) module because I was a Kickstarter subscriber for Avalon. I will be very interested to see how it plays out in PBF. I have deliberately kept the Commander/Merlin in this version, because I think the Lancelot/changing sides adds confusion.
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
Confirming I'm in!
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
mfl134 wrote:
Don E wrote:
(If anyone's interested, the concept of the turn-coats for the original sci-fi theme was that they were malfunctioning Androids.)


Can the spies be called Brown Coats?
Why?
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
Vanderscamp wrote:
Confirming I'm in!
Hi VC - are you in Melbourne now?
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
I'm in.

Incidentally, are we doing the lady of the lake/inquisitor? It gets a little confusing, but hilarity ensures after m2 when the inquisitor checks someone, then immediately before m3 lancelot switches sides, meaning, the 'fact' the person they checked is resistance is now completely useless. I'm in favour of it, but if the consensus is no inquisitor, I'm happy to play without it.
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
clublock wrote:
I'm in.

Incidentally, are we doing the lady of the lake/inquisitor? It gets a little confusing, but hilarity ensures after m2 when the inquisitor checks someone, then immediately before m3 lancelot switches sides, meaning, the 'fact' the person they checked is resistance is now completely useless. I'm in favour of it, but if the consensus is no inquisitor, I'm happy to play without it.
Not planning inquisitor atm, though it is intriguing; I want to see how Lancelot/Turn-coat plays out first.
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
gamer42_au wrote:
clublock wrote:
I'm in.

Incidentally, are we doing the lady of the lake/inquisitor? It gets a little confusing, but hilarity ensures after m2 when the inquisitor checks someone, then immediately before m3 lancelot switches sides, meaning, the 'fact' the person they checked is resistance is now completely useless. I'm in favour of it, but if the consensus is no inquisitor, I'm happy to play without it.
Not planning inquisitor atm, though it is intriguing; I want to see how Lancelot/Turn-coat plays out first.


Fair enough, I'm looking forward to it!
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
Sounds crazy enough! I'm in.

Game with Commander, Clyde and DJ is bound to be interesting

So if my math is correct, we can expect by M5 (if it gets to it):
0 flips - 10%
1 flip - 75%
2 flips - 15%

This implies, that the turncoats should assume they are on the other team (and get screwed by never changing it). Also spies don't know one of their own (turncoat rebel) and Commander can once again be confused.
Sounds about right, Martin?
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
I'm in.
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
Now I'm having doubts. It should probably be:
0 flips - 10%
1 flip - 60%
2 flips - 30%

Still, it should be better to play for the opposite team in case of turncoats, but it's not guaranteed to pay off.
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
I think Lancelots should claim.

If I could get away with it, I'd claim Lancelot AND Merlin.
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
clydeiii wrote:
I think Lancelots should claim.

If I could get away with it, I'd claim Lancelot AND Merlin.


before you go all crazy claiming lancelot, does that really make sense? The answer is, no.

If spy lancelot claims, you just told a rebel who a spy is.

if rebel lancelot claims, you just told the spies who isn't merlin. Also, you let the spyLancelot know of a spy upon switch.

I'd except that people should claim lancelot, but not that lancelot's should claim.
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
gamer42_au wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
Confirming I'm in!
Hi VC - are you in Melbourne now?

Yep! Arrived yesterday. The weather here sure is different! How hot is it in Sydney?
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
JarekWarsaw wrote:
Now I'm having doubts. It should probably be:
0 flips - 10%
1 flip - 60%
2 flips - 30%

Still, it should be better to play for the opposite team in case of turncoats, but it's not guaranteed to pay off.

These are the right probabilities, but only if it actually gets to M5...
It's pretty close which team they'll end up on.

Also, I don't see how it's in any way to the resLancelot's advantage to claim...
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
spyLancelot has the choice to pass or fail? I had heard he is required to fail.
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
mfl134 wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
I think Lancelots should claim.

If I could get away with it, I'd claim Lancelot AND Merlin.


before you go all crazy claiming lancelot, does that really make sense? The answer is, no.

If spy lancelot claims, you just told a rebel who a spy is.

if rebel lancelot claims, you just told the spies who isn't merlin. Also, you let the spyLancelot know of a spy upon switch.

I'd except that people should claim lancelot, but not that lancelot's should claim.


Here's why a SpyLancelot claim might make sense.

"Hey guys, I'm spy Lancelot and 60% of the time I end up as rebel. Put me on M1 and I will pass it under that assumption."

 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
WyantJM wrote:
spyLancelot has the choice to pass or fail? I had heard he is required to fail.
Oh, if that is true you cannot claim.

Don?
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
I'm going to sit this one out, I'm really busy next week with work and school. Have fun!
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
Me too.
 
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Re: PBF#42 Turncoat spies 7player - Commander/Assassin +turn-coats NOW OPEN FOR SIGN-UP
He is required to fail in the variant where you deal out the switching schedule ahead of time. Spy has a choice here.
 
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