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Subject: Kickstarter Reprint Conundrum : Hasbro agreement on the reprint and intellectual property ? rss

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Nathaniel GOUSSET
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Hi,

can we have a proof that HASBRO has released an agreement on another company using their intellectual property and copyrighted material ? Because that is something that start to really annoy me as I am well aware on how tightly they keep their hold on anything Avalon Hill related.
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Bruce Murphy
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IKerensky wrote:
Hi,

can we have a proof that HASBRO has released an agreement on another company using their intellectual property and copyrighted material ? Because that is something that start to really annoy me as I am well aware on how tightly they keep their hold on anything Avalon Hill related.


Hasbro aren't nice people. I know of one instance where they falsely claimed to still have ownership of a lapsed license, simply because the default answer of their legal department is "it's ours! we own it!" for absolutely anything.

That said, I've heard from folks in the industry that Hasbro are perfectly willing to license non-active properties for large (low 5 figure) up-front payments. There could be interesting features of some games, but one suspects that this sort of payment is easier when you're kickstarting something.

B>
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Brian Morris
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That use to be the case 10 years ago but in recent years many titles gave been released that were Avalon Hill catalog titles that Hasbro owned. I think Hasbro finally figured out that keeping so many titles locked away was doing themselves more harm reputation wise than it was worth. So they finally started letting them be licenced out.
 
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Roar Stensrud
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I'm pretty sure this isn't anything to worry about.
Those of us who have been playing this game for some time will probably remember Andrew Maly's "Up Front Main Page" that once was a great source for expanding and develop the game. Andrew organized the website and didn't make a dime on any of the meterial on it. Still Hasbro (MMP) forced Andrew to shut down the page.

Seen in this light, don't you think Hasbro's lawyers would have been all over this by now if the rights weren't already sorted out??? After all, Andrews website was just that, a website. What we have here is a fully fledged KS campaign. I'm sure Hasbro would have caught wind...

Let's look at another game series that I'm a fan of: VG's "Fleet" series. As of now, the rights to that series has been reverted to the original designer, Joe Balkoski. I suspect that something similar might actually be the case with Up Front (as has also been hinted at here on the BGG). Courtney Allen is on the team and the sidebar advertisement for the Up Front KS Campaign, which sometimes show up on BGG, announces "Coutney Allen's Up Front".

R.
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Nathaniel GOUSSET
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Except that as, Hasbro is a very aggressive company they could wait until the end of the Kickstarter to produce the cease and dessist. They could even wait until the product is produced, sue them and then try to grab all the materials to released them under their logo.
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Bruce Murphy
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IKerensky wrote:
Except that as, Hasbro is a very aggressive company they could wait until the end of the Kickstarter to produce the cease and dessist. They could even wait until the product is produced, sue them and then try to grab all the materials to released them under their logo.


Aggressive as they are, things don't work like that.

B>
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Derry Salewski
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IKerensky wrote:
Except that as, Hasbro is a very aggressive company they could wait until the end of the Kickstarter to produce the cease and dessist. They could even wait until the product is produced, sue them and then try to grab all the materials to released them under their logo.

If you deliberately let people use your shit, you don't get to call it your shit any more.
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Bruce Murphy
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scifiantihero wrote:
IKerensky wrote:
Except that as, Hasbro is a very aggressive company they could wait until the end of the Kickstarter to produce the cease and dessist. They could even wait until the product is produced, sue them and then try to grab all the materials to released them under their logo.

If you deliberately let people use your shit, you don't get to call it your shit any more.


Well, no, the new art etc that VG/RG has paid for is still owned by them and Hasbro don't get to simply take it. Waiting until they see whether people actually sell something before suing is fine.

B>
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matt way
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Oh, so now that we break 100,000 we suddenly need a new conspiracy? This was thrown out as a problem early on but gained no traction, you can look through the old threads if you are truly interested in the issue.

Poliorcetes

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David Janik-Jones
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IKerensky wrote:
Hi,

can we have a proof that HASBRO has released an agreement on another company using their intellectual property and copyrighted material ? Because that is something that start to really annoy me as I am well aware on how tightly they keep their hold on anything Avalon Hill related.


Just speaking as a player of 29 years: I'd suggest here that you're making an (common) assumption about who owns what with regards to Up Front, without taking other possible interested parties/owners into account, which might also tie into why the reprint was never able to be completed by MMP a decade ago.

[Daniel does ... see below! ]
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Daniel Kearns
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I own the rights to UP FRONT! Surprise suckaz!
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Nathaniel GOUSSET
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Poliorcetes wrote:
Oh, so now that we break 100,000 we suddenly need a new conspiracy? This was thrown out as a problem early on but gained no traction, you can look through the old threads if you are truly interested in the issue.

Poliorcetes



That is not conspiracy. That is a true concern. Up Front failed to be reprinted for a long time and the owning of the licence and IP was a major point in it. Now there is a reprint announced but NO INFORMATION about securing the licence or IP nor an agreement with Hasbro about it.

How can I back something that I am not sure is a legal enterprise ? amn't I entitled to ask for proof ? I asked Hasbro about it but dont really expect an answer...
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Roar Stensrud
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IKerensky wrote:

That is not conspiracy.


Yes it is!

Do you really think this would have gotten so far if the ownership-issues were not sorted out?

Maybe you missed this:
DaveyJJ wrote:
Just speaking as a player of 29 years: I'd suggest here that you're making an (common) assumption about who owns what with regards to Up Front, without taking other possible interested parties/owners into account, which might also tie into why the reprint was never able to be completed by MMP a decade ago.


R.
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Mark Mitchell
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IKerensky wrote:
Poliorcetes wrote:
Oh, so now that we break 100,000 we suddenly need a new conspiracy? This was thrown out as a problem early on but gained no traction, you can look through the old threads if you are truly interested in the issue.

Poliorcetes



That is not conspiracy. That is a true concern. Up Front failed to be reprinted for a long time and the owning of the licence and IP was a major point in it. Now there is a reprint announced but NO INFORMATION about securing the licence or IP nor an agreement with Hasbro about it.

How can I back something that I am not sure is a legal enterprise ? amn't I entitled to ask for proof ? I asked Hasbro about it but dont really expect an answer...


Well we'll find out in 6 months. Until then I wouldn't worry, nothing anyone says here will change anything, and if anything happens it'll be too late to worry.
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Bruce Murphy
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Sounds a lot like Hasbro are up to their old tricks again.

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Mark Mitchell
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IKerensky wrote:
Poliorcetes wrote:
Oh, so now that we break 100,000 we suddenly need a new conspiracy? This was thrown out as a problem early on but gained no traction, you can look through the old threads if you are truly interested in the issue.

Poliorcetes



That is not conspiracy. That is a true concern. Up Front failed to be reprinted for a long time and the owning of the licence and IP was a major point in it. Now there is a reprint announced but NO INFORMATION about securing the licence or IP nor an agreement with Hasbro about it.

How can I back something that I am not sure is a legal enterprise ? amn't I entitled to ask for proof ? I asked Hasbro about it but dont really expect an answer...


AHA! Well done!! The Eye of Sauron is now looking directly at the UpFront KS campaign. Congrats!
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gamecat_uk wrote:
AHA! Well done!! The Eye of Sauron is now looking directly at the UpFront KS campaign. Congrats!

I was going to say. If they didn't know about it before, they do now...

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Ahmed Hadzi
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Adverb wrote:
gamecat_uk wrote:
AHA! Well done!! The Eye of Sauron is now looking directly at the UpFront KS campaign. Congrats!

I was going to say. If they didn't know about it before, they do now...



Well I would say they knew about it when (and ifwhistle) they sold the rights to VG. Now, if they didn't we should put a yellow "DO NOT CROSS" tape around this particular forum, which could be concluded with some admin saying: Nothing to see here people, move along please...laugh
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William Garramone
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Some of the Hasbro family live in my city. My niece went to a party at one of their houses. Holy crap, indoor waterfalls, elevators, you name it. And yes, I can speak to their aggressiveness. They are ALL ABOUT the money. I can tell you many stories gleaned through my niece.
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Ed Browne
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If one has concerns about Hasbro and/or Valley Games, please don't participate in the project. They seem to be doing quite well with it. A few things concerning this:

1. The original designer is involved. He should understand whether he can do this. With all previous issues with getting a reprint on this particular game, one can assume they have done their homework with it, especially the designer.

2. I was working with the project (before my new baby took my time away) and refused to help until I knew the IP issues were resolved. (they have been)

3. They aren't using the "Squad Leader" IP for this project. And that was really all Avalon Hill had to do with the original UF except the publishing.

4. Some have a personal interest in trying to harm Valley Games. See several other threads for their justifications as rehashing is getting old.

5. This is yet another thread that has nothing to do with the actual game that is clogging the site for people with legitimate interest in both versions of the game. Please take concerns about Kickstarter to the appropriate Kickstarter area.
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Brent Lloyd
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IKerensky wrote:
...amn't I entitled to ask for proof ? I asked Hasbro about it but dont really expect an answer...


You are entitled to ask for anything you wish, being entitled to an answer is completely different. I would suggest that you are NOT entitled to an answer from any of the parties involved (or not involved) in this project. If this bothers you, then I suggest you not back the project.

How many other companies have you asked for proof that they own the rights to publish? I suspect none.

The original designer is heavily involved in the project. That is good enough for me.

Peace
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Phil Sauer
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Grimstax wrote:
4. Some have a personal interest in trying to harm Valley Games.

Some have a personal interest in seeing Valley Games, Inc. pay its bills. Fixed that for you.

Your other points are valid, however.
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Bruce Murphy
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What appropriate kickstarter area? The backers only comments?

B>
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Nathaniel GOUSSET
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thepackrat wrote:
What appropriate kickstarter area? The backers only comments?

B>


+1

Why are people so agressively paranoïd when you ask a simple question, that come a lot in all thoses years when you speak about ASL material.

And you can bet that before paying 150$ IN ADVANCE for any ASL/AH reprint I would take all garanty that thoses products should be delivered.

Finally all I asked is : is the IP secured and in the hand of RG or not ? why is there no one answering just that ?
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Phil Sauer
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Ask this guy:

https://ourcpa.cpa.state.tx.us/coa/servlet/cpa.app.coa.CoaGe...

Click "Officers and Directors."

We haven't heard from him yet, and he OWNS the company.

He was apparently at a very convention where his firm won an award, but it was an award accepted by two officers of a different firm.

It's certainly very interesting, if nothing else.
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