Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

Pandora's Box» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question about the value of the initial stone in the box rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
sunday silence
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
How did you arrive at the idea that the initial stone in the box was worth the number of players in the game? Did the game not work with nothing in the box?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Stanley
United States
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I tend to do heavy statistical analysis whenever I design games.

The four goals with the hope stone, and by extension the game, included:

1. Keep the game interesting, with both the hand or the box being viable paths to victory.
2. Keep the game thematic with the most important and powerful good spirit in the box.
3. Make sure the game scaled well to any size playing group.
4. Keep the rules as clean, simple, and elegant as possible.

Those goals and my statistical analysis took me to the value of the hope stone: one point per player.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
sunday silence
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
so the game would change if say a four player game the hope stone was only worth 3? I thought the idea of the hope stone was to make ties less likely.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Stanley
United States
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ties are impossible, but it is not uncommon for scores to be equal and the tiebreaker rule to be invoked. It is a critical element of game strategy: planning for the possibility of equal scores and winning based on position. In some ways, the hope stone value could be seen as making it more likely, not less likely, that scores are equal.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
sunday silence
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
the tie break rule I would guess was one of those light bulb ideas that makes the game work. How early on the in process did you come up with that? I think this rule is crucial.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Stanley
United States
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's a fundamental rule and was developed at the beginning with the core design.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
sunday silence
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
Blue Steel wrote:
... In some ways, the hope stone value could be seen as making it more likely, not less likely, that scores are equal.



I'm not even sure this is true. Couldnt it be just as likely you get a 0-0 tie as a +2/+2 tie? That is if you didnt have anything in the box to start with? How does stones in the box make scores more equal? you still have to drop one stone per move, this wouldnt change the overall rate or distributions of how stones are dropped into the box would it? So how would scores be more equal?

Sorry if I am missing something obvious.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Stanley
United States
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Play a few times and it will make sense. The game ends when one player has run out of cards, but that player open the box, so every player will have cards to score (some more than others). Most players will have tried to retain a few white stones, as there are more players who won't open the box than players who will (only one player will get the box's contents). The hope stone is properly balanced to the four objectives outlined.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
sunday silence
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
we did play the game, five times I think, last night. A session report to follow.

But still not understanding your reasoning. If the goal is to encourage thee box to come out to near zero that is one thing but I dont see how that is leveling off the scores themselves. You could just as easily have players score -1; -1, 0, +2 or something like that and the scores would still be close.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Green
United States
North Tonawanda
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sundaysilence wrote:
we did play the game, five times I think, last night. A session report to follow.

But still not understanding your reasoning. If the goal is to encourage thee box to come out to near zero that is one thing but I dont see how that is leveling off the scores themselves. You could just as easily have players score -1; -1, 0, +2 or something like that and the scores would still be close.
Having read the rules, I think it's most likely to be players first intuition to try to get rid of bad spirits by throwing them into the box. The positive value of the box would help even that out.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peer Sylvester
Germany
Berlin
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It also prevents the game from screwing with the last player.
If A drops stone, changes with B, B drops changes with C etc. than the sixth player would have to open Pandoras Box without any options. If some players droped black stones, he would loose without the hope sone.
The Hope stone prevents this from happening, since its quite powerful in a multiplayergame, so it is a bigger incentive to take Pandoras Box.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
sunday silence
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
perhaps a better idea to combat the problem is to not allow passing with the person directly on your left. This I alluded to in the recent post in the variant section.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.