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Subject: 9 VP rss

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Tim Harrison
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Does anyone else think 9 VP is too many?

I haven't tried it yet, but I'd be curious to see if 8 VP would allow more distinct strategies (as it seems 9 VP requires you to be much more balanced).
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Tim Seitz
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Glen Allen
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I don't know; 9 seems just fine, and I don't think it requires any sort of balance. I've won with 25 cities and with less than 10. With all 5 scholars and with only 1, with gold strategies, and with iron strategies. With 21 personages, you don't even need to take temples for someone to win the game. The modular rules that let you decide what resources are produced and relaxing the trading ratio allow for very different approaches to the game.
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Tim Harrison
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out4blood wrote:
I don't know; 9 seems just fine, and I don't think it requires any sort of balance. I've won with 25 cities and with less than 10.


Wow...

I've only played a few games so far, but due to the increased costs of warfare, I've never seen a person hit more than 15 cities.
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Tim Seitz
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GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
out4blood wrote:
I don't know; 9 seems just fine, and I don't think it requires any sort of balance. I've won with 25 cities and with less than 10.


Wow...

I've only played a few games so far, but due to the increased costs of warfare, I've never seen a person hit more than 15 cities.

To arm a unit costs 2 iron. A city costs 1 of each for 3.

Even once you get defense, it only takes 4 iron to take a city. 6 if they went and built walls, but then they spent 4, and walls can be an inefficient move.

If you get an iron lead, you can slowly whittle them down. Some players resign, some keep fighting.

The cost of recruiting creates opportunity for strategy. It seems like a good idea to get all the techs early, but if your opponent used his gold to get troops, it can be quite uncomfortable, and difficult to defend.
 
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Tim Harrison
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out4blood wrote:
GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
out4blood wrote:
I don't know; 9 seems just fine, and I don't think it requires any sort of balance. I've won with 25 cities and with less than 10.


Wow...

I've only played a few games so far, but due to the increased costs of warfare, I've never seen a person hit more than 15 cities.

To arm a unit costs 2 iron. A city costs 1 of each for 3.

Even once you get defense, it only takes 4 iron to take a city. 6 if they went and built walls, but then they spent 4, and walls can be an inefficient move.

If you get an iron lead, you can slowly whittle them down. Some players resign, some keep fighting.

The cost of recruiting creates opportunity for strategy. It seems like a good idea to get all the techs early, but if your opponent used his gold to get troops, it can be quite uncomfortable, and difficult to defend.


I often see temples as fortifications, so it makes taking enemy cities much more difficult.
 
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Tim Seitz
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GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
out4blood wrote:
GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
out4blood wrote:
I don't know; 9 seems just fine, and I don't think it requires any sort of balance. I've won with 25 cities and with less than 10.


Wow...

I've only played a few games so far, but due to the increased costs of warfare, I've never seen a person hit more than 15 cities.

To arm a unit costs 2 iron. A city costs 1 of each for 3.

Even once you get defense, it only takes 4 iron to take a city. 6 if they went and built walls, but then they spent 4, and walls can be an inefficient move.

If you get an iron lead, you can slowly whittle them down. Some players resign, some keep fighting.

The cost of recruiting creates opportunity for strategy. It seems like a good idea to get all the techs early, but if your opponent used his gold to get troops, it can be quite uncomfortable, and difficult to defend.


I often see temples as fortifications, so it makes taking enemy cities much more difficult.

I call those "targets".
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Tim Harrison
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out4blood wrote:
GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
out4blood wrote:
GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
out4blood wrote:
I don't know; 9 seems just fine, and I don't think it requires any sort of balance. I've won with 25 cities and with less than 10.


Wow...

I've only played a few games so far, but due to the increased costs of warfare, I've never seen a person hit more than 15 cities.

To arm a unit costs 2 iron. A city costs 1 of each for 3.

Even once you get defense, it only takes 4 iron to take a city. 6 if they went and built walls, but then they spent 4, and walls can be an inefficient move.

If you get an iron lead, you can slowly whittle them down. Some players resign, some keep fighting.

The cost of recruiting creates opportunity for strategy. It seems like a good idea to get all the techs early, but if your opponent used his gold to get troops, it can be quite uncomfortable, and difficult to defend.


I often see temples as fortifications, so it makes taking enemy cities much more difficult.

I call those "targets".


Right, but I often see people getting +1 defense tech and/or fortifications too, so while yes they are targets, a lot of those will make getting 20+ cities very very difficult (or at least time consuming).
 
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Tim Seitz
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Glen Allen
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GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
out4blood wrote:
GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
out4blood wrote:
GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
out4blood wrote:
I don't know; 9 seems just fine, and I don't think it requires any sort of balance. I've won with 25 cities and with less than 10.


Wow...

I've only played a few games so far, but due to the increased costs of warfare, I've never seen a person hit more than 15 cities.

To arm a unit costs 2 iron. A city costs 1 of each for 3.

Even once you get defense, it only takes 4 iron to take a city. 6 if they went and built walls, but then they spent 4, and walls can be an inefficient move.

If you get an iron lead, you can slowly whittle them down. Some players resign, some keep fighting.

The cost of recruiting creates opportunity for strategy. It seems like a good idea to get all the techs early, but if your opponent used his gold to get troops, it can be quite uncomfortable, and difficult to defend.


I often see temples as fortifications, so it makes taking enemy cities much more difficult.

I call those "targets".


Right, but I often see people getting +1 defense tech and/or fortifications too, so while yes they are targets, a lot of those will make getting 20+ cities very very difficult (or at least time consuming).

Like I said, there are lots of strategies. If your opponent is making offensive temples, chances are you won't need to get 20 cities. You can get:

3 from 15 cities
3 from scholars (he bought a temple, while you got a scholar lead)
1 from a navigator
1 from a general - which is why offensive temples are bad!
1 from 3 temples (most of which you dropped just to end the game)
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Tim Seitz
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Temples in the back are defended by distance and by taking arming actions that eliminate troops in your territory.

Temples in the front can be attacked from anywhere with in 2 spaces. You can't defend them all adequately and at least one of them will fall eventually. In a tight game, losing a temple can often be the difference.

An early offensive temple can confer a small early game advantage because it can block up territory, but flow around it, and attack it in the midgame when you have +1 movement tech.
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Aitor Bartolome
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I like the temples in the front strategy.

- Temples in the front can become temples in the back if you managed to conquest neighbour cities.
- One of the best abilities of temples is that they allow to arm 3 units on that city, so you can make a successful attack to neighbour cities on next duellum.
- Temples on the front slows development of opponent temples as he will need to pay one extra coin to put a temple next to yours.
- Temples can be reinforced with troops improving its defence.
 
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Federico
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Temples at the front seem to be good only when you are ahead militarly, to have a foward centre of production for your armies.
I've considered invading the opponent's mainland and planting a temple there as a ruse, but I think it costs way too much.

I'm not as experienced as you guys, but to me the real cost of conquering is the time you lose to arm and attack, rather than the 4 iron. You can try to be efficient and use your duellum move also to colonize or position yourself, but after the opening you cannot squeeze much else out of the militia turn.
Because of the time you need to invest and the opponent getting one card from the supply, I try to attack only if I can get more than one city (or a temple).

By the way, Tim, have you noticed this user?
 
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John Weber
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Federico,

Sadly, I am very sorry to report that the above post in this thread appears to be Tim's last on BGG.

See:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/892577/tim-seitz-out4blood-r...
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Federico
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Yeah, I had found the bad news
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