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Subject: A significant step towards humanlike artificial intelligence rss

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Mac Mcleod
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http://www.nature.com/news/simulated-brain-scores-top-test-m...
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“Until now, the race was who could get a human-sized brain simulation running, regardless of what behaviours and functions such simulation exhibits,” says Eugene Izhikevich, chairman of the Brain Corporation in San Diego, California, who helped to develop some of the first large-scale neuronal models — including one with 100 billion neurons. “From now on, the race is more [about] who can get the most biological functions and animal-like behaviours. So far, Spaun is the winner.”


Not sure how much is hyperbole... but if it is what it sounds like, it's about 10 years earlier than I expected and a potential singularity level event.

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Xander Fulton
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Soooo...teaching machines to think, huh?

That'll end well...

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David desJardins
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maxo-texas wrote:
Not sure how much is hyperbole... but if it is what it sounds like, it's about 10 years earlier than I expected and a potential singularity level event.


This seems like solid research. But, on its own terms, if it's generating a small fraction of human intelligence, at a rate thousands of times slower than real time, that even the most optimistic analysis would mean we're many decades away from any kind of human-level functioning intelligence. And then you need several decades beyond that for a "singularity level event". Maybe in 2080, or so.
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Mac Mcleod
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DaviddesJ wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Not sure how much is hyperbole... but if it is what it sounds like, it's about 10 years earlier than I expected and a potential singularity level event.


This seems like solid research. But, on its own terms, if it's generating a small fraction of human intelligence, at a rate thousands of times slower than real time, that even the most optimistic analysis would mean we're many decades away from any kind of human-level functioning intelligence. And then you need several decades beyond that for a "singularity level event". Maybe in 2080, or so.


So I'll be safely dead.

Hmmm. 2080 is 78 years from now.

78 years ago it was 1934.

I think sooner than 78 years but still after I'm safely dead.

 
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Boaty McBoatface
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Can you have intelligence without our ability to be correctly wrong? I am not sure that intelligence is just processing power or ability to learn (or recall facts) it's about out ability to make intuitive guess (which I suspect has a directly biological component).
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Adrian Hague
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It's a bit of a moot point until we can come up with a solid definition of 'intelligence', let alone the sub-set of 'human intelligence'.
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Boaty McBoatface
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AdrianPHague wrote:
It's a bit of a moot point until we can come up with a solid definition of 'intelligence', let alone the sub-set of 'human intelligence'.
Well I assume when they talk about 'artificial intelligence' they mean the ability to think like a human.
 
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David desJardins
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slatersteven wrote:
AdrianPHague wrote:
It's a bit of a moot point until we can come up with a solid definition of 'intelligence', let alone the sub-set of 'human intelligence'.
Well I assume when they talk about 'artificial intelligence' they mean the ability to think like a human.


Ah. That certainly answers all possible questions one could have.
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Boaty McBoatface
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DaviddesJ wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
AdrianPHague wrote:
It's a bit of a moot point until we can come up with a solid definition of 'intelligence', let alone the sub-set of 'human intelligence'.
Well I assume when they talk about 'artificial intelligence' they mean the ability to think like a human.


Ah. That certainly answers all possible questions one could have.
Well what does it mean then?
 
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David desJardins
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slatersteven wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
AdrianPHague wrote:
It's a bit of a moot point until we can come up with a solid definition of 'intelligence', let alone the sub-set of 'human intelligence'.
Well I assume when they talk about 'artificial intelligence' they mean the ability to think like a human.


Ah. That certainly answers all possible questions one could have.
Well what does it mean then?


As Adrian said, no one knows, including the researchers in the field.
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Boaty McBoatface
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DaviddesJ wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
AdrianPHague wrote:
It's a bit of a moot point until we can come up with a solid definition of 'intelligence', let alone the sub-set of 'human intelligence'.
Well I assume when they talk about 'artificial intelligence' they mean the ability to think like a human.


Ah. That certainly answers all possible questions one could have.
Well what does it mean then?


As Adrian said, no one knows, including the researchers in the field.
How Deepthoughtish.
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Jerry Martin
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chaendlmaier wrote:
XanderF wrote:
Soooo...teaching machines to think, huh?

That'll end well...


IMHO a better implication. The terminator is a killing machine, but it's hardly conscious.


So I love 2001 and At one point HAL says. "This sort of thing has always been attributed to human error." (or something close to that)

I always felt it really wasn't HAL's fault. He was given conflicting orders and really was just "completing the mission" Killing the astronauts was what an emotionless thing would choose when it saw no other way to "complete the mission" The real fault lie in the programmers that never wrote code telling it that killing a human was against the rules.

Arthur C. Clarke, who wrote the story, said he thought that an intelligent computer was the next set of evolution for human. A electronic brain that could live "forever" and travel the stars and attempt to contact other species.

(I know I am hijaking but I find it interesting.)
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David desJardins
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Syvanis wrote:
The real fault lie in the programmers that never wrote code telling it that killing a human was against the rules.


When you say it that way, it sounds even more preposterous. Anyone building a computer-controlled spacecraft, and programming in mission objectives, would place the lives of the crew very high on that list.
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Dan Schaeffer
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Syvanis wrote:
The real fault lie in the programmers that never wrote code telling it that killing a human was against the rules.


When you say it that way, it sounds even more preposterous. Anyone building a computer-controlled spacecraft, and programming in mission objectives, would place the lives of the crew very high on that list.


Yes, but they might not have considered "preservation of crew lives" as a mission objective (as opposed to a function of the various safety and life support features of the craft), and/or they might not have even contemplated that crew well-being could come into conflict with the mission objectives. Or just not thought it necessary to prioritize it above the mission objectives. Unintended consequences and unanticipated errors come up all the time in the development of complex systems.
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The Steak Fairy
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My God, did you people not see 2010? It was all totally explained, as everything always was back in the days when Roy Scheider could be expected to show up in a sequel.
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Xander Fulton
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MisterCranky wrote:
My God, did you people not see 2010? It was all totally explained, as everything always was back in the days when Roy Scheider could be expected to show up in a sequel.


It was explained in the way the thread was discussing.

HAL 9000 was given instruction on the mission objectives, which included ensuring the crew did not know the nature of the mission (presumably, to a certain point they didn't reach during HAL's active lifecycle). This was, at the very least, a programming error - although implication (particularly in the '2010' movie) was that the programming provided for logic around prioritization of mission objectives...the programmer just never imagined that one of the objectives given to the AI would be to "hide the truth from the crew".

As anyone in software development knows, projects implemented with core business requirements not defined (and forced into the project late in the dev cycle) have a way of being...interestingly...executed.
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David desJardins
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I've been involved in software development and it seems absurd to me. But it's only a movie.
 
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I've been involved in software development too, and my software revolts on me on a daily basis. I'm most certain that my apps would shoot me into cold space if it had the chance.
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lotus dweller
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Syvanis wrote:
...
A electronic brain that could live "forever" and travel the stars and attempt to contact other species.


We've already done somewhat better than that.

We have sent a space probe out with a greeting on it to other species, recorded by a former Secretary General of the United Nations who worked in the Nazi SS, processing reports on the progress of ethnic cleansing, some of which was being finalised by on-going systematic killings within 100m of his office.

What need do we have of an electronic brain?
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Jerry Martin
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To interact with them.
 
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lotus dweller
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Unquietening similarities exist between Space Odyssey 2001 and the message on the Voyager spacecraft.

In both cases something not fit for purpose was sent out into space representing humanity.

 
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Boaty McBoatface
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Syvanis wrote:
The real fault lie in the programmers that never wrote code telling it that killing a human was against the rules.


When you say it that way, it sounds even more preposterous. Anyone building a computer-controlled spacecraft, and programming in mission objectives, would place the lives of the crew very high on that list.
To have any kind of intelligence (even if we do not know what it is) must include free will, you have to be able to think anything. The moment you 'hard code' inhibitions you do not have true freedom of thought.
 
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David desJardins
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slatersteven wrote:
To have any kind of intelligence (even if we do not know what it is) must include free will, you have to be able to think anything.


Definitely wrong.

Quote:
The moment you 'hard code' inhibitions you do not have true freedom of thought.


Wrong again. Your brain is designed in such a way that there are all sorts of thoughts you could never have, just because of its structure. What good is a theory of "intelligence" that doesn't include human beings as intelligent?
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Boaty McBoatface
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DaviddesJ wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
To have any kind of intelligence (even if we do not know what it is) must include free will, you have to be able to think anything.


Definitely wrong.

Quote:
The moment you 'hard code' inhibitions you do not have true freedom of thought.


Wrong again. Your brain is designed in such a way that there are all sorts of thoughts you could never have, just because of its structure. What good is a theory of "intelligence" that doesn't include human beings as intelligent?
Sorry we are not talking about thoughts but moral inhibitions (and no I don't think the are thoughts we cannot have, there may be levels of thinking we do not have, but everyone (unless they have congenital (or induced) defect can think the same thoughts.
 
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David desJardins
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slatersteven wrote:
no I don't think the are thoughts we cannot have


Chomsky would strongly disagree.
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