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Subject: Solitaire suitability? Comparison with DVG's games? rss

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Michael Andersch
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I own some of DVG's solitaire games and wonder, whether "World at War" could also be something I might like.

As I didn't find the rules for download anywhere, I hope for some comments from you:

- can the rules be downloaded somewhere?
- How suitable is it if you ONLY play solitaire?
- If you also know or own DVG's Field Commander Rommel, Hornet Leader or Thunderbolt Apache Leader: What about WaW's level of complexity compared to those games? Which one do you consider better?
- how good are the rules? I must admit the amount of rules questions here somewhat discourages me...

Any other comments are appreciated, too!
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Micha wrote:
I own some of DVG's solitaire games and wonder, whether "World at War" could also be something I might like.

As I didn't find the rules for download anywhere, I hope for some comments from you:

- can the rules be downloaded somewhere?
- How suitable is it if you ONLY play solitaire?
- If you also know or own DVG's Field Commander Rommel, Hornet Leader or Thunderbolt Apache Leader: What about WaW's level of complexity compared to those games? Which one do you consider better?
- how good are the rules? I must admit the amount of rules questions here somewhat discourages me...

Any other comments are appreciated, too!


I think the rules are avalible at either look n load or consimworld

The game in my experience in works well solo

 
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Mark
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Micha wrote:
I own some of DVG's solitaire games and wonder, whether "World at War" could also be something I might like.

As I didn't find the rules for download anywhere, I hope for some comments from you:

- can the rules be downloaded somewhere?
- How suitable is it if you ONLY play solitaire?
- If you also know or own DVG's Field Commander Rommel, Hornet Leader or Thunderbolt Apache Leader: What about WaW's level of complexity compared to those games? Which one do you consider better?
- how good are the rules? I must admit the amount of rules questions here somewhat discourages me...

Any other comments are appreciated, too!


I'm not familiar with DVG. World at War is very solitaire friendly. The rules are extensive, but the details are easy. There are some novel concepts that probably cause a little head scratching till you get the hand of them.Best way to learn is to push around counters and roll dice.

The Untold Stories rules are a slightly updated version of the B&B rules, with a few more addons. You can down load them here.
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Rodger Wilkershank
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Micha wrote:
I own some of DVG's solitaire games and wonder, whether "World at War" could also be something I might like.

As I didn't find the rules for download anywhere, I hope for some comments from you:


Micha wrote:
How suitable is it if you ONLY play solitaire?

While the rules are not designed for solo play like the DVG games these can be played solo. I've played several Lock 'N Load games solo and while they aren't designed specifically for solo play, and don't have any special solo rules, I've enjoyed them when I play.

The chit pull system adds some randomness and mixes things up which is nice for solo play.

The only drawback I would say is the pace is pretty rapid which can lead to defensive stalemates.

Micha wrote:
If you also know or own DVG's Field Commander Rommel, Hornet Leader or Thunderbolt Apache Leader: What about WaW's level of complexity compared to those games? Which one do you consider better?

I've play Field Commander: Rommel and the games play are a lot different. Both games are fairly easy to learn. The WaW rules are pretty easy to grasp and it doesn't take too long to know them well enough for the games to flow smoothly.

Micha wrote:
how good are the rules? I must admit the amount of rules questions here somewhat discourages me...

I don't think the rules are that bad at all. I think the rules from Lock 'N Load have a certain personality and I enjoy them. Others, however, don't have the same feeling. As far as the WaW rules go there aren't a whole lot of them and I didn't have many questions when I started playing it. Also, if you learn these rules, and like the game, the other games from Lock 'N Load have very similar rule sets to it makes them all easier to jump into.

Micha wrote:
Any other comments are appreciated, too!

I have several games from Lock 'N Load and I've enjoyed all the ones I've played so far. They aren't very deep but that's one aspect I like about them. You can play a lot of the scenarios fairly quickly so if you just want to setup a wargame to play for a little while, but don't feel like spending multiple-hours playing, these are perfect. They are fast paced and fun. Plus, I think they are easy enough that once you get a hold of the rules you could teach someone else to play with you, even if they are not really a war gamer.
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Michael McCalpin
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Micha wrote:

- how good are the rules? I must admit the amount of rules questions here somewhat discourages me...
The rules are not terribly complex but there are many different kinds of die roll modifiers and numbers-of-dice modifiers that can be hard to remember, so I made a cheat sheet for myself. Also frustrating is that sometimes a roll of 1 is good, sometimes a roll of 6 is good, and sometimes evens is good. Again, the cheat sheet helps and after a while it is all pretty natural. I do enjoy the games and the variety available within the series.
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Phil Lewis
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mmccalpin wrote:
The rules are not terribly complex but there are many different kinds of die roll modifiers and numbers-of-dice modifiers that can be hard to remember, so I made a cheat sheet for myself. Also frustrating is that sometimes a roll of 1 is good, sometimes a roll of 6 is good, and sometimes evens is good. Again, the cheat sheet helps and after a while it is all pretty natural. I do enjoy the games and the variety available within the series.


Just to clarify, you might be confusing the World at War rules with those from Lock 'n Load. Same publisher, but dramatically different systems. WaW is platoon-level combat with lots of armor. It's fairly consistent--roll high all the time.

Back to the original question, yes, solitaire suitability is high. It's a chit-draw mechanic for activation, which adds to replay value. I've played DVG's Phantom Leader and Frontline D-Day, and the WaW series is certainly no more complex. The rule book might look big, but keep in mind it contains the scenarios as well. The actual rules are about the same in terms of volume as a DVG game.

Best,
-phil
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Michael McCalpin
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red_herring wrote:
mmccalpin wrote:
The rules are not terribly complex but there are many different kinds of die roll modifiers and numbers-of-dice modifiers that can be hard to remember, so I made a cheat sheet for myself. Also frustrating is that sometimes a roll of 1 is good, sometimes a roll of 6 is good, and sometimes evens is good. Again, the cheat sheet helps and after a while it is all pretty natural. I do enjoy the games and the variety available within the series.


Just to clarify, you might be confusing the World at War rules with those from Lock 'n Load. Same publisher, but dramatically different systems. WaW is platoon-level combat with lots of armor. It's fairly consistent--roll high all the time.

Back to the original question, yes, solitaire suitability is high. It's a chit-draw mechanic for activation, which adds to replay value. I've played DVG's Phantom Leader and Frontline D-Day, and the WaW series is certainly no more complex. The rule book might look big, but keep in mind it contains the scenarios as well. The actual rules are about the same in terms of volume as a DVG game.

Best,
-phil
I did actually mean World at War. I have never played or seen any games from the Lock 'n Load family. The kinds of rolls I was referring are those like this, from the World at War: The Untold Stories rules:

* If a unit with an HQ gets hit, roll 1d6. The HQ is reduced on a roll of 1. (rule section 1.3.3.2)
* If a support weapon hasn't been deployed and a unit that could have had the support weapon is destroyed, roll 1d6. On a roll of 1, the support weapon is lost. Subtract one from this die roll for the next unit to be eliminated and so on. (1.3.5)
In both of these cases, 1 is the outlier number that you are looking for for an event to occur.

* In indirect fire, one rolls a 1d6 to determine if the desired hex is hit. On a result of 6, the hex is missed and the opponent gets to select an adjacent hex to be the target hex. (8.0)
In this case, 6 is the outlier number that causes the unusual event to occur.

* If a transport unit is carrying infantry and is reduced in combat, roll a 1d6. If the result is even, reduce the carried infantry unit. (5.2.4)
* If a unit moves into a Mines! hex, roll a 1d6. On an odd result, the unit is disrupted. (12.2)
In these two cases, it is evens vs odds that you are looking for for an event to happen.

To be sure, you don't always want to roll high.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game system and I will gladly play it (poorly), but for a simple system, it could have been simpler still if the die rolls had been structured more similarly from one to the next, and I didn't even touch on the modifiers that add die rolls instead of modifying them. Not the end of the world, but could have been better.
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Michael Andersch
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ZombieMark wrote:
You can down load them here.


Hello Mark,

thanks, but this link doesnt't work. And I didn't find it anywhere else on their pages...
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Michael Andersch
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@ all: Thanks for your comments so far!
I think I will have a closer look ;-)

Just one more question:
RodgerPW wrote:
You can play a lot of the scenarios fairly quickly so if you just want to setup a wargame to play for a little while, but don't feel like spending multiple-hours playing, these are perfect.


Can you specify that a little bit more? How long would you say will it take to set the game up? And what about the average playtime of a single scenario?
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Mark
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Micheal, my bad. soblue

On The Untold Stories page , where it says:

World at War: The Untold Stories
8/31/11 -French rules translation here.
11/6/10 -World at War -Untold Stories manual available. Actual printed manual will not be color throughout. View here.

The word "here" is the link to the rules pdf.
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Michael Andersch
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Thank you, Mark!
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Rodger Wilkershank
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Micha wrote:
Can you specify that a little bit more? How long would you say will it take to set the game up? And what about the average playtime of a single scenario?


This will depend on the scenario you choose to play. Each release comes with a play book that has several scenarios in it. The idea is to play them from end-to-end because together they tell a story. However, if you just want to play a quick game you can find a small scenario, set it up, and play for a little while.

Most of the boxes come with map boards that are 11 x 17 (Blood & Bridges is different since it comes with one big map) that you put together based off the scenario. Each scenario can use anywhere from 1-4 maps. Blood & Bridges follows the same idea by restricting the play area to certain hex-ranges for a scenario.

If you pick a small, one map, scenario you can setup and play within 30min, or so, and a two map scenario probably within an 1-1 1/2hrs. There aren't a whole lot of counters for the one/two map scenarios (for the most part) so it doesn't take too long to gather the ones you need and set them up. A lot of the scenarios I've played don't even setup all the units up front because they enter the map on various turns so this makes setup pretty quick. I played a four map scenario this past week and it took me well over four hours (probably closer to five) to play, so you have the option for longer games when you want them as well.

Generally speaking the bigger the scenario you pick the longer it's going to take but you have a lot of flexibility of picking what you want to play, unless you're a stickler for playing scenarios in the order they are presented.

Out of the different WaW games I have it looks like a higher percentage of the scenarios are two maps scenarios, which I would say could probably be played in 1-2hr time frame (setup-to-end). Of course, it will take you a while to play your first few games but I think the rules start to make sense pretty quickly and will speed up the game play once you're comfortable with them.
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Michael Andersch
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Thanks, Rodger, for your detailled answer!
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Phil Lewis
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mmccalpin wrote:
To be sure, you don't always want to roll high.


You're right, it's not always high. There are some variations in the dice, but as stated, nothing that impedes play.

Thanks
-phil
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Mike Willner
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Not like you need another opinion, but... WaW is a fine solitaire gaming system. The scenarios generally set up interesting puzzles for one or both sides. The chit pull system keeps things unpredictable as does one of my favorite features ... Chaos! (random events that can churn the best laid plans).

You may find it fun to play through the scenarios in order, absorbing the story line, watching them build. I'm not too concerned with inconsistent die rolling conventions or less-than-exact rules. It's a fun, playable but very robust system that stands up to repeated solitaire and face-to-face play.
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Michael Andersch
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Thanks Mike - every comment is appreciated!
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Keith Plymale
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This game system is actually one of the easiest solo one I've ever played. The random activation chits make every game different and make even make each turn different. Plus this game has a lot of support from fan's both here and on Consimworld blogs.
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