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Subject: Alliance questions... rss

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Christopher Best
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Brandon
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When allied with Atraides, is he allowed to show his allies the card that is up for bids in the treachery deck? Basically use his ability to show his allies.

THanks,

Chris
 
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Chris Barnard
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Hi Chris,
I think not. Allies don't gain all the advantages. On the Atreides shield the only alliance advantage is to force the opponents of your allies to show them one element of their battle plan.
 
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Bruce Glassco
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Ah, one of the many murky areas in the rules. It doesn't say anything about whether or not the Atreides can show anyone cards. However, anyone can TELL anyone anything. The main tricky sentence in the rules about deals that gets endlessly debated is the line saying something like "All deals that have publicly announced must be adhered to truthfully." Most of the groups that I have played with have interpreted this to mean that if I say I will privately tell you the truth about what a card is, then I must tell the truth and cannot lie -- thus, in effect, I can just as easily show you what the card is as tell you.

So in many groups -- though not all -- the Atreides can show cards to anyone he wants, not necessarily just his ally. This often becomes a major moneymaker for A. He can even make deals to send card information covertly -- I've sometimes made a deal as the Atreides with the Harkonnen that "I will kick you under the table when the Family Atomics comes up if someone else is about to get it, because it's better for both of us if you have it than someone else."

It's always best to go over this rule when you're playing with a new group of people, though. I was once in a tournament that got halfway through before one player accused another of cheating and stormed away because they were playing with different interpretations of this rule.
 
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Dan Freedman
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Hmm, hadn't thought about it like that. We always play that you (Atreides) can show the card to whomever you like. But technically, if you can't show the card...then your options are telling everyone truthfully what the card is, or telling someone privately what the card is...the latter carries the danger that you might be untruthful. That's a subtle difference, but it makes a difference in what the "knowledge" is worth.

Unfortunately, if you can't show the card, that is going to slow the game down while the Atreides player and his "customer" consult privately. Since bidding is supposed to happen quickly (5 secs), I'm not sure if that rule was intended.

What if the Atreides player publically says, "I'll tell the Emperor what the next card is for 4 spice, and I won't lie." Then a private conversation with the Emperor ensues...does he have to tell the Emperor truthfully? If yes, he might as well show him the card to speed up the game.
 
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