GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!
10,385 Supporters
$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
14 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
4 Posts

Cosmic Encounter» Forums » Rules

Subject: Hate - you have the power of rage rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Illumi Z
msg tools
Hello, I have signed up just to ask this question re. the Hate card in Cosmic Encounter (which is an awesome game):

The Hate player begins their turn, discarding an Attack 13 card. One of the other players has 2 cards in hand: a Negotiate and an Attack 10. Is that player forced to lose ships, or can they discard the Attack 10?

It seems to me that the text on the Hate card forces them to discard an Attack card of "equal or higher value", so the Attack 10 would not count and therefore they would be forced to lose ships. My friend thought that the Hate text indicates that the player only has to discard the same type, and the part about "equal or higher value" is only enforced if that player actually has an equal or higher valued card. He thinks that the player would be allowed to discard the Attack 10 to avoid losing ships.

Please help us out! Thanks in advance.

(edited for spelling)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Toltz
United States
Boston
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
Your cat likes me more
badge
In brightest day / In blackest night / No evil shall escape my sight / Let those who worship evil's might / Beware my power--Green Lantern's light!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's interesting to note that it specifically says...

Quote:
If another player has no cards of the discarded type, he or she must lose ships.


I think that's probably the crux of the argument right there.

Going by a very strict reading the card, I'd say that your friend has found a loophole and may, in that sense, be correct.

I also don't think that it's within the spirit of Hate; it offers a binary choice: discard an appropriate card or lose ships. It so happens that if Hate discards an attack, "appropriate card" here has an additional requirement that the card discarded be equal or higher in value.

I'd probably give it to your friend for that one game, but argue in favor that in future games the Hate be houseruled to specifically close that loophole.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Illumi Z
msg tools
Thanks for replying.
Asmor wrote:
I also don't think that it's within the spirit of Hate; it offers a binary choice: discard an appropriate card or lose ships. It so happens that if Hate discards an attack, "appropriate card" here has an additional requirement that the card discarded be equal or higher in value
This was my reasoning as well. I understood the Hate card text to be a sort of "list of requirements" which must be fulfilled in some way. In my example, the Attack 10 does not meet the requirement of ">= 13", so it cannot be discarded. In this case the only way to meet the Hate requirements would be to lose ships.

Has anyone else thought about this issue? It significantly changes the power of the Hate card: if I am correct Hate could be destroying a LOT more ships.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Just a Bill
United States
Norfolk
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Illumi wrote:
Asmor wrote:
it offers a binary choice: discard an appropriate card or lose ships.
This was my reasoning as well.

Agreed. The requirements are laid out in the earlier sentences, and the equal-or-higher requirement is absolute: "If you discard an attack card, your opponents must discard an attack card of equal or higher value." The later phrase "If an opponent has no cards of the discarded type" is written sloppily, but means "if an opponent has no cards that meet these criteria" ... it isn't intended to loosen up the requirements already stated.

I guess I should fix the ambiguity in the Cosmodex. Or maybe just delete that later sentence; it seems completely redundant to me, since if you can't discard an appropriate card, how could you have any other option but to lose ships? (Demonstrating yet again how redundancy almost always causes more problems than whatever it was intended to accomplish.)
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.