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Subject: Another first player question. rss

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Darrell Goodridge
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I did a cursory search and didn't find exactly my question, so here goes.

Let's say it is a 4 player game, and the 2nd player takes Castle Waterdeep with his first action. Does the turn order stay the same for the entire round or will player 2 start first with the second action?

So, if it's round 3 for example and 2 agents apiece, would turn order go 12342341? Or 12341234 with first player taking effect in round 4?
 
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Mindy G
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The turn order would not change in the middle of the round. The First Player Marker indicates who starts each Round.
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Darrell Goodridge
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Thank you. That was exactly what I needed to know. (And have been playing that way)
 
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Josh Lacey
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Not sure here, unless there has been official FAQ. Pg 8 says "Each player takes turns, one at a time, starting with the player who has the first player marker and proceeding to that players left."

So if the first player marker changes, the next turn would start with whoever has the first player marker. I do not see anything that indicates that it has to wait until the next round. I have been playing as you all have, but this is a good question and could add another layer. It also doesn't note, on page 12, the taking of the first player marker waits until the end of the round.
 
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Marty Kane
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But you only start the round once, right? So there's no reason to check who has the first player marker except the very first time someone takes a turn. The rule you quoted even indicates that you just go clockwise from there.
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Mindy G
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Yes, but Pg 11 specifies "At the end of the round, all players return all their Agents to their pools. The player with the First Player marker begins the next round." If the player with the FPM should begin the next turn sequence it would say that.
 
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Josh Lacey
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Pg 11 rule has no bearing on if it changes intra round, but that is a good catch. Pg 23 defines rounds and turns seperately.

Definition of turn: During each round, players take turns. Whoever has the first player marker goes first, then the player to his or her left, and so on...
...rest is irrelevant.

It speaks of turns as a sub unit with the first player going first.

There is also nothing on the official Wizards FAQ. I play it switches at the round, and that is probably the intent, but it doesn't read that way if you really break it down.
 
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Darrell Goodridge
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Haha. So which is it? I figured this'd be a slam-dunk question! I've been playing it starts at the beginning of a round, but I've only played 2-player so it didn't really matter. But now I've got a 4-player game tomorrow so it would matter.
 
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Team Ski
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Cardboardjunkie wrote:
Haha. So which is it? I figured this'd be a slam-dunk question! I've been playing it starts at the beginning of a round, but I've only played 2-player so it didn't really matter. But now I've got a 4-player game tomorrow so it would matter.


Geez....the player who gets the token starts the next round first. That is it and nothing more!! You guys are starting to rule lawyer... hehehehe....

-Ski
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Josh Lacey
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I don't disagree that's "probably" the intent. If this has come up several times why is there no official FAQ on Wizards site with the other stuff. This could adjust how the game is played.

I as the last player in a 2,3,4, or 5 player game use my agent to go to Waterdeep Castle to become the starting player and get an intrigue card. I am now starting player for the next turn and can now go to Waterdeep Harbor to play my intrigue card...and now have the advantage of being the starting player for each "turn" until somebody replaces me.

There is nothing that definitively states in the rules that starting player changes "at the next round". This could legitimately be a part of the design and our per-conditioned expectations of turn order waiting for the round to change could be causing us to overlook this.

I don't care, one way or the other but it'd be nice to know for certain what the intent is.
 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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I certainly have always played that the starting player doesn't chance turn by turn but rather round by round.
 
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Darrell Goodridge
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I'm glad I was able to bring a new and interesting topic to this forum! I figured it had been asked 100 times already.
 
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TGCRequiem wrote:
I don't disagree that's "probably" the intent. If this has come up several times why is there no official FAQ on Wizards site with the other stuff. This could adjust how the game is played.

I as the last player in a 2,3,4, or 5 player game use my agent to go to Waterdeep Castle to become the starting player and get an intrigue card. I am now starting player for the next turn and can now go to Waterdeep Harbor to play my intrigue card...and now have the advantage of being the starting player for each "turn" until somebody replaces me.

There is nothing that definitively states in the rules that starting player changes "at the next round". This could legitimately be a part of the design and our per-conditioned expectations of turn order waiting for the round to change could be causing us to overlook this.

I don't care, one way or the other but it'd be nice to know for certain what the intent is.


This is a slam dunk. The mechanic of "skipping" over other players within the round is already integrated with the Intrigue cards. You are wrongly interpreting the rules pure and simple.

-Ski
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Marty Kane
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TGCRequiem wrote:
It speaks of turns as a sub unit with the first player going first.

There is also nothing on the official Wizards FAQ. I play it switches at the round, and that is probably the intent, but it doesn't read that way if you really break it down.



A turn is one player placing an agent. If the First Player marker had any bearing on it then that player would just get to place all of their agents before anyone else did, right?

There is no unit of play for "each player takes one turn", and no reason to change the turn order after the first agent placement of a round.
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Josh Lacey
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As I've said, I play it switches at the round, I just thought it was a good question because there is grey in how the rule is written. I don't disagree that is how the game should be played.

In a game where all the actions take place immediately you would think the one that doesn't would clearly state it takes effect at the start of the next round.
 
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Darian Tucker
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The Rulebook wrote:
At the end of the round, all players return all their Agents to their pools. The player with the First Player marker begins the next round.


This isn't enough for you? If the first player always started each turn, there would be no need for a sentence like this. The fact this sentence exists lends credence to the idea that the First Player only switches at the beginning of a round and not mid-round.
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Lee Fisher
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It changes at the beginning of the round.
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Josh Lacey
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Actually when you put it that way, that makes me agree it's clear.
 
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Joe Bowers
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My friends and I house rule that when you take the first player marker, you become the first player effective immediately. We finish out the remaining players in the sequence of turns the round started with, then the player with the marker starts the next sequence. This way, if the person going last takes the marker, they immediately get to go again if they have an agent remaining. It gives the action of taking the marker more strategy and power to make up for the general lack of importance it usually carries among our group.
 
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Darian Tucker
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Lack of importance? How about not getting screwed over in the next round if someone takes the building you need?
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Jason Williams
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oriecat wrote:
Yes, but Pg 11 specifies "At the end of the round, all players return all their Agents to their pools. The player with the First Player marker begins the next round." If the player with the FPM should begin the next turn sequence it would say that.
...this hits the nail on the head - End of Question.
Topdecker577 wrote:
My friends and I house rule that when you take the first player marker, you become the first player effective immediately. We finish out the remaining players in the sequence of turns the round started with, then the player with the marker starts the next sequence. This way, if the person going last takes the marker, they immediately get to go again if they have an agent remaining. It gives the action of taking the marker more strategy and power to make up for the general lack of importance it usually carries among our group.
...this is incorrect gameplay.
 
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Daniel Näslund
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jwsl1200mk2 wrote:
Yes, but Pg 11 specifies "At the end of the round, all players return all their Agents to their pools. The player with the First Player marker begins the next round." If the player with the FPM should begin the next turn sequence it would say that.
...this hits the nail on the head - End of Question.



I´ll hit that nail to. And, I think that the option to be able to fight over the first player marker (if you want to) a couple of turns before next round adds to the hammer blow.
 
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